tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post3187368316123093448..comments2024-02-23T03:38:53.049-05:00Comments on The Pervocracy: Slavering Beast Theory.Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-11224598163065447912013-09-17T01:42:27.418-04:002013-09-17T01:42:27.418-04:00I feel bad for your daughters. You clearly don'...I feel bad for your daughters. You clearly don't understand the concept of "Shrodingers Rapist", or you wouldn't be arguing with Holly. I suggest you go back and read the essay, perhaps several times, until you understand what Holly is telling you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-9899703629319202582013-08-10T03:38:07.258-04:002013-08-10T03:38:07.258-04:00I've had secret fantasies, too. If someone spr...I've had secret fantasies, too. If someone sprung that on me without my verbal consent, though? Rape. Definitely.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12841071061212052350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79099950804142129422013-08-10T03:35:15.252-04:002013-08-10T03:35:15.252-04:00" I also think, this can happen to anyone, dr..." I also think, this can happen to anyone, drunk, sober, whatever"<br /><br />No, it can't happen to anyone. As someone who has been sexually assaulted multiple times, I can still say that most people I know would never even think to ignore "no", to pressure someone into sex, or to touch someone against their will. And it's not something that "happened"; it's something you *chose* to do. You may not be pure evil, but you are an attempted sexual assailant, and that act is evil. Maybe that's the only time you've ever done that and ever will, but if you really feel remorse, you'll take responsibility for what you did and what you tried to do, and not frame it as something that "can happen to anyone".Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12841071061212052350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-87951027515668218072013-08-10T03:19:15.770-04:002013-08-10T03:19:15.770-04:00I love how you explicitly say "pressured"...I love how you explicitly say "pressured" and "consensual sex" in the same sentence. Any sex that's pressured? That's rape.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12841071061212052350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-84545167030144991952013-08-10T03:05:53.914-04:002013-08-10T03:05:53.914-04:00Glad to know men being offended by the fact that t...Glad to know men being offended by the fact that they belong to the gender that most commonly rapes is of equal importance to women fearing, you know, rape.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12841071061212052350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-22304060199108799362013-08-10T02:58:24.526-04:002013-08-10T02:58:24.526-04:00Dude, the male equivalent to rape, is rape. NOT fa...Dude, the male equivalent to rape, is rape. NOT false accusations or gold-digging.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12841071061212052350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-12876354121439783022012-04-24T21:47:47.552-04:002012-04-24T21:47:47.552-04:00Very good distinction, hadn't actually thought...Very good distinction, hadn't actually thought about it in those terms before.ergo sum pezzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06105837911539814720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-1386770294436937682011-11-18T09:49:41.319-05:002011-11-18T09:49:41.319-05:00@Hershele -- yeah, that's exactly the kind of ...@Hershele -- yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of. <br /><br />11:44 anon -- that's a really interesting point. I think the two phenomena share the idea that rape is about "undesirable" sex, which can be evaluated by the society at large, instead of that rape is about /unwanted/ sex, as decided solely by an individual. <br /><br />-- 8:52 anonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-17976523175785354932011-11-16T11:44:20.490-05:002011-11-16T11:44:20.490-05:00That probably comes from a similar sort of place t...That probably comes from a similar sort of place to "men can't be raped because they always want sex/only get an erection when they want sex." All of these: Bad Thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83645671178055770542011-11-15T08:31:49.524-05:002011-11-15T08:31:49.524-05:00That's a good point, Anon, not infrequently wh...That's a good point, Anon, not infrequently when women complain their boundaries were violated they get the response "well, you wouldn't mind if he were attractive."Hershele Ostropolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-81702693834001777202011-11-14T20:52:45.537-05:002011-11-14T20:52:45.537-05:00I would also add, "Slavering Beasts are ugly&...I would also add, "Slavering Beasts are ugly". <br /><br />The rapists -- and other people with a propensity to ignore boundaries -- whom I have known have all been quite attractive. Why would a good-looking person commit rape? Because they wanted to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-22941914685057864862011-11-11T02:07:33.970-05:002011-11-11T02:07:33.970-05:00@perlhaqr: It would have been interesting to see a...@perlhaqr: It would have been interesting to see a comment with actual content. "lulz, I will invert feminist tropes and pretend to be all oppressed" isn't much of an argument, sorry. "Gold-digger" and "baby-mama" are vague, ridiculous, sexist stereotypes, and oh, by the way, are <i>not rape</i>, which is something that is inflicted on men, too.<br /><br /><i>Your attempt to kick me (and presumably Scootah) out of Holly's comment's section is pretty brassy, too. </i><br /><br />Isn't it, though?mythagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138471078836187498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-61587074833464211522011-11-10T20:11:40.981-05:002011-11-10T20:11:40.981-05:00The man who raped me was, most of the time, gentle...The man who raped me was, most of the time, gentle, timid, well-spoken and very, very sensitive-- to the point of being frustratingly passive. He had a slim, small build, generous mouth and very pretty brown eyes.<br /><br />I would never have thought that he'd end up being controlling, manipulative, cruel and eventually brutally violent. If I'd been able to see through his facade-- well, I'd probably have a successful career as someone's psychic.<br /><br />Sometimes people are really good at pretending, at putting on a good face. It's not my fault that I was fooled.<br /><br />And it's not anyone's fault that someone rapes them, beats them up in an alley, or inflicts any other violent crime upon their person. Sometimes you don't see it coming. Sometimes it's that guy who cried when someone killed a mosquito.<br /><br />Thanks for this. It's important that people learn that they're responsible for their actions-- and that crimes are committed by PEOPLE, not monsters, lurking in the shadows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-66827268483233261482011-11-09T00:30:26.794-05:002011-11-09T00:30:26.794-05:00I don't have much to add except that "*ge...I don't have much to add except that "*gently slides in*" is maybe not the best choice of opening words in a thread about rape... >>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-48933658711933106712011-11-07T21:33:22.906-05:002011-11-07T21:33:22.906-05:00Great post, Holly. I think the Slavering Beast the...Great post, Holly. I think the Slavering Beast theory is a really great way to talk about attitudes towards rape, assault, violence in general. <br /><br />I see the Slavering Beast as a scapegoat. He is terrifying, nasty, and he does all the Bad Things. Then, when Bad Things happen, we subconsciously either a) assume that they were done by Slavering Beasts, or, if evidence is strong to the contrary, b) assume they weren't Bad Things after all. <br /><br />Becoming aware of this imaginary character is a good step towards owning up to the very real acts of rape and violence that happen around us. Sometimes the victim and/or the perpetrator is a friend, or a loved one. Sometimes it's us. Which is kind of dark, but it's also true, and so important to be aware of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79977696077010659792011-11-07T08:31:46.574-05:002011-11-07T08:31:46.574-05:00@thebestdefenseprogram
I agree with everything yo...@thebestdefenseprogram<br /><br />I agree with everything you say. I also would like to point out that I dont believe you can "always" know someone's intent. The truth is though, with many of the closest people in our lives the trust is more often broken in little ways over a period of time. It is only rarely broken in one instance. It is my belief that those little moments are the ones we should be paying most attention to. As far as strangers and strange enviroments go, we both know that is a much different situation.Tit for Tathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454132514796693591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-16096787310526354062011-11-06T18:38:18.759-05:002011-11-06T18:38:18.759-05:00The slight issue with this argument is that pretty...<i>The slight issue with this argument is that pretty much everything behind the attitude I'm opposing here is true, it's just the attitude that can grow out of assuming it all is, in my opinion at least, Not Helpful.</i> I'm afraid I don't understand this sentence at all...<br /><br />As for the rest, there's much more to everyone than any act they carry out, but we simplify people's roles in order to understand what part they play in our lives. A mechanic is a mechanic, despite any other aspect of our relationship or his/her life. If the mechanic is also a rapist (and I know), the rapist classification takes precedence over the mechanic classification. If my friend was a nice person <i>before</i> he committed a rape, it changes nothing about the new classification he falls under, as I will no longer feel safe around him (even though I am not likely his next victim).<br /><br />While there are many things that can lead to SBT, including misconceptions about what rape is, this changes nothing about the fact someone is either a rapist or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-21817578399897823262011-11-06T18:31:48.102-05:002011-11-06T18:31:48.102-05:00Anon 5:57.
A person who commits rape is a rapist....Anon 5:57.<br /><br />A person who commits rape is a rapist.<br /><br />Is there more to them than that? Of course. In fact, that's sort of the point of this whole post. They might be a hard worker, a good musician, an amusing storyteller; they'll certainly have a life, a history, personal triumphs and failures and insecurities, as any other human being does. People who commit rape are not, by and large, completely soulless monsters. They don't spend their entirely lives crouching in shadows just waiting to viciously attack someone. They are people.<br /><br />But they're still rapists. The idea that we shouldn't call people who commit rape rapists because 'rapist' is a super-powerful word that describes only the evillest of evildoers...that's the very problem Holly is talking about here.aebhelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-23437347907381108862011-11-06T17:57:46.796-05:002011-11-06T17:57:46.796-05:00You don't seem to be taking from this what I&#...You don't seem to be taking from this what I'm taking from this- namely, the fact that reducing someone to "a rapist" is a vast oversimplification. There's more to people than that, and yes, while it's true to say someone's a rapist if they rape people, it's the attitude that there are "rapists" and "not-rapists" and everyone falls into one of those that leads to SBT.<br /><br />The slight issue with this argument is that pretty much everything behind the attitude I'm opposing here is true, it's just the attitude that can grow out of assuming it all is, in my opinion at least, Not Helpful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-86367778545255616292011-11-06T17:43:22.156-05:002011-11-06T17:43:22.156-05:00Great post, Holly.
You said, "This is why I ...Great post, Holly.<br /><br />You said, "This is why I don't like the statement "she didn't get raped because of something she did; she got raped because she was in the presence of a rapist." I think we need to say "she didn't get raped because of something she did; she got raped because her attacker decided to rape her." But that's what makes him a rapist. Perhaps we didn't know it beforehand because the rapist is King of Hidden Intent, but he showed himself in that moment. It can be somewhat comforting, I suppose, to say he wasn't a rapist before that moment but it seems similar to saying someone isn't ill prior to showing symptoms. He was a rapist before that moment, and either he concealed his intent or prior (attempted) assaults. Or we concealed them for him. That being said, the fact your buddy didn't give off signals to *you* doesn't mean he wasn't giving them off or they weren't being ignored. Chances are, his victim will be able to relate in hindsight all sorts of "aha" moments.<br /><br />As a self-defence instructor who has studied crime and violence in-depth and teaches much more than just counter-violence, I've examined rape "prevention" strategies at length and can conclude only one thing: There's no such thing as prevention. There is risk reduction only, and much of what can be taught will only ever have anecdotal (non) evidence to support it. It's also important to keep in mind a simple idea when constructing risk reduction strategies: reducing risk while similarly affecting one's ability to enjoy life is pointless; real self-defence involves making life more comfortable for the individual and their companions, rather than having everyone conform to a model that suits nobody perfectly.<br /><br />As for "instincts," what most people refer to as instinct isn't a sixth sense but an amalgamation of the original five interpreted on a level below conscious understanding. We notice when someone is faking active listening, respect, and so on, though we often don't realize we noticed those things until afterwards (just like the FBI). Does that invalidate our "instincts?" Not at all. If you get the "no" feeling from someone, listen to it. If you don't get the "no" feeling, or it goes away before you listen to it, it doesn't necessarily mean you're safe, though, as like I already said, the rapist is King of Hidden Intent.<br /><br />Regarding Tit for Tat's assertion that we can always see it coming, that nobody can hide their intentions for long: While it's true people eventually do tend to reveal their true selves, by that point they're usually in the process of breaking the trust they've acquired. We will never know if someone won't ever break our trust based on how many times they didn't, though to live life as though everyone will someday break our trust would become very uncomfortable in a short period of time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-30145008758483383372011-11-06T09:12:40.580-05:002011-11-06T09:12:40.580-05:007:25 Anon - Your post wasn't a question. It wa...7:25 Anon - Your post wasn't a question. It was a collection of swear words.<br /><br />I don't think I'm obligated to answer "FUCK bitches you hate men so much FUCK," or how I would even do that.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-90772056894975002162011-11-06T07:54:13.851-05:002011-11-06T07:54:13.851-05:006:58 am Anon
I'm one of the people who posted...6:58 am Anon<br /><br />I'm one of the people who posted the link to that article. Glad its given you some things to think about. You might find this article a little more accessible. <br /><br />http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/shroedingers-rapist-and-the-imagined-right-to-intrude/<br /><br />It's a reaction piece to the original article called Shroedinger's Rapist and the imagined Right to Intrude, and it focuses on the last couple of paragraphs of the original post. <br /><br />The problem isn't that "most women live in constant fear of being raped/assaulted" although some women do, and that is a problem. <br /><br />The problem is that some (many?) people think it is appropriate to violate another person's boundaries by interrupting them when they are clearly not interested in interacting (looking out the window, arms crossed, listening to headphones, reading, etc.) <br /><br />This is exactly what most rapists do. (See the study by Lisak and Miller, 2002, or http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/ ) <br /><br />This is why you can't tell if someone is a rapist or not. Because lots of (otherwise) Nice Guys act like them. That's rape culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-68800639824476742262011-11-06T07:25:19.515-05:002011-11-06T07:25:19.515-05:00You don't have an answer, so you delete my pos...You don't have an answer, so you delete my post? Typical. Although that act was an answer in itself. It said "la la la I can't hear you go away!" Which I'll be happily doing now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-86747811873569242222011-11-05T23:21:56.533-04:002011-11-05T23:21:56.533-04:00Did anyone here ever consider that nobody is a rap...<i>Did anyone here ever consider that nobody is a rapist until AFTER they commit rape?</i><br /><br />I've been thinking about this. It sounds tautological, but consider:<br /><br />Sandy secretly wants partners to flurnulate during sex, but has never told anybody, even sex partners. In fact, while Sandy wouldn't dare admit to liking flurnulation until several years into an ongoing sexual relationship, there is literally never a time during sex when Sandy doesn't want flurnulation. Now Pat and Sandy are having sex for the first time, and without ever having asked about it, Pat flurnulates.<br /><br />Has Pat raped Sandy?<br /><br />Has Pat become a rapist?<br /><br />I would be hard-pressed to say Pat has raped Sandy by doing something Sandy wanted. However, I would be equally hard-pressed to say Pat is not a rapist, or at least that Pat has not exhibited a rapist mindset.Hershele Ostropolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-58274821576265017842011-11-05T19:10:23.491-04:002011-11-05T19:10:23.491-04:00Anon 6:34: thank you for telling that story.
I...Anon 6:34: thank you for telling that story.<br /><br />I've done some rapey things in my youth, too, out of selfishness combined with the societally-ingrained idea that men will happily engage in sexual activity with anyone, anywhere, anytime, and therefore CAN'T be raped or sexually assaulted. <br /><br />No guy ever flat out said "no" to what I was trying to do and then left - but in retrospect I see that "Okay, FINE, go ahead *sigh*" is not really consent, and neither is lying there and putting up with it silently. Probably these guys gave in because they, too, thought they were supposed to be up for sexual contact at any time and it would be wussy to refuse. It makes me cringe to think about it.<br /><br />...And yet, during that same period in my life, I became vegetarian for animal rights reasons and painted pictures and cried at sad movies and would do anything at all for one of my friends if zie needed it. So I, too, completely agree with Holly that someone can do terrible things without being a 100% terrible PERSON. I know it for a fact.<br /><br />...And yet, the Slavering Beast theory has permeated MY head, too, and often when someone infringes on my (or someone else's) personal boundaries I find myself thinking "...But zie seemed so NICE." This goddamned brainwashing is seemingly inescapable. :(perversecowgirlhttp://www.perversecowgirl.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com