tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post6138989785782312536..comments2024-03-22T05:55:48.117-04:00Comments on The Pervocracy: Simply naming it.Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-31004286077044621942013-02-25T18:54:31.391-05:002013-02-25T18:54:31.391-05:00I just wanted to comment, because my experience wa...I just wanted to comment, because my experience was very different from yours. I tried for years the "ignore it and they will get bored" strategy for dealing with bullies, and it was pretty much the worst advice I was ever given in childhood. I found that acting like I didn't care was one of the things that significantly increased the odds of the attack escalating. If they couldn't get a response with a verbal taunt, then they moved on to a physical one. And if I acted like that attack didn't hurt me, then I got attacked harder until I would react. It probably depends a fair bit on the nature of your bullies and the environment you are in. Maybe if you're in an environment where verbal attacks aren't taken seriously but physical ones are, so you can trust that it won't escalate, but I've never been in that environment.<br /><br />What I did find worked was one of three things - either getting somebody bigger and stronger to beat the bully up and warn them that I was off limits. A solution I quite dislike, but at least it kept me safer. Getting them to think that something I didn't mind was a good way to harass me and trying to direct the harassment in that direction (please don't throw me into the briar patch!) Or (and kind of a variant on the previous) using humor and weirdness. For example, I might go into a long big-word including scientific-sounding lecture about the thing they just said and how fascinating it is that they said it or whatnot. This would give them something to laugh at and they can show their friends how weird and ridiculous the kid they want to bully is, and I get to not get beaten up, have a mental exercise of coming up with something that sounds impressive, and get to mentally laugh at them for being so ridiculous. Not exactly healthy either, because you get into a mindframe of social interactions are inherently adversarial, but if you're being regularly bullied, I'm not sure there's a good way to avoid that or to learn healthy social interactions until you are actually somewhere where most interactions are safe ones. <br /><br />Anyhow, that's my experience, and I'm sure others have had other experiences. But I wanted to toss it out there for all the people who are ignoring it so they'll stop as much as they possibly can and finding that it never works for them. I didn't hear alternate options as a child, so it took me a very long time to give up on that strategy or to realize I wasn't just not good enough at ignoring them or some such when it never worked with my bullies. And I want people to know that sometimes it doesn't work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-68826263736358783072011-08-28T21:42:49.769-04:002011-08-28T21:42:49.769-04:00Anon who keeps leaving increasingly anti-fat comme...Anon who keeps leaving increasingly anti-fat comments about how he doesn't have anything against fatties here, you can give up, because I'm not going to publish them.<br /><br />Perhaps you have been tragically misunderstood. In that case, you've just got to walk away knowing that there are five or six people, on the Internet, who do not even know your Internet name, who will forever misunderstand you. Sorry. Such is life.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-15869407889394142642011-08-15T18:49:18.112-04:002011-08-15T18:49:18.112-04:00Anon Troll,
Being fat is not necessarily a choic...Anon Troll,<br /> <br />Being fat is not necessarily a choice. And even if it is, it doesn't deserve any hatred because of that.<br /><br />Being unhygenic isn't absolute. What would you consider to be a standard of hygenie? Showering every day? What about not having leg hair? Wearing antiperspirants? Even then, some people cannot necessarily help with their hygenie. Some people smell bad, and they literally cannot kill it. (Rotting fish syndrome, for example.) And some people choose to abide by different standards of hygenie, and it doesn't give you (or anyone else) leave to disrespect them.<br /><br />Also, you can generally get clean with a good shower. You can't stop being fat so easily.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-37759072337247738032011-08-15T17:44:36.216-04:002011-08-15T17:44:36.216-04:00I feel that 'fat' isn't quite right, b...I feel that 'fat' isn't quite right, because I don't actually have that much fatty tissue. I'm much more muscular, which people mistake for 'fat'.<br /><br />-IrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-18888997686884522822011-08-15T16:54:41.963-04:002011-08-15T16:54:41.963-04:00Anon Troll:
Regarding 'choice':
I'm ...Anon Troll:<br /><br />Regarding 'choice':<br /><br />I'm fat. I am also very healthy. I eat a normal amount of calories and less fat than average. I exercise slightly more than average. I will probably still be fat for a long time.<br /><br />I did not choose to be fat. I chose to be healthy, to be happy, to not starve myself. If that reduces me as a person, me as someone with feelings, me as someone who deserves no less respect, then fuck off.<br /><br />There are legitimate medical diseases and conditions wherein people literally cannot not be fat. You don't have to date anyone you find unattractive--in fact, you don't have to date anyone at all!<br /><br />Stop saying 'but fat women are UNSEXY! Won't somebody think of my boners!' Stop pretending you're concerned with health. Stop saying people who are average-sized are fat.<br /><br />-A Huge PigAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-2236819626609277722011-08-03T00:58:41.442-04:002011-08-03T00:58:41.442-04:00Holly,
*sigh* Ok. I'm done apologizing.
My ...Holly,<br /><br />*sigh* Ok. I'm done apologizing.<br /><br /><br />My posts:<br /><br />1) "here's how I think men and women are different in how they decide who is fat"<br />2) "I don't agree that the media focuses excessively on thinness"<br /><br /><br />Then what happened?<br /><br /><br />You started asking me questions. <br /><br />I answered the questions. I asked you some, which you mostly didn't answer (should I use E-Prime for everything? is sexy subjective or not?). <br /><br />What did you do? Accuse the guy <b>you asked the questions</b> of saying "WELL YOU CAN'T HAVE MY BONER".<br /><br />I politely said, "that's not what I mean". <b><i>Every</i></b> time you did this. Every time you accused me of saying and believing something I don't, I explained my position.<br /><br />You assumed, that because I didn't quietly agree after your first post, I was some mustache twirling cartoon that hated you.<br /><br /><br />Know what? <br /><br /><br />I don't hate you. Even after all your bullshit misreading and refusal to honestly participate in a discussion you started, I feel no urge to call you a name. <br /><br />People make mistakes, and you're a legitimately talented writer that I still respect, so making some glib remark about Rhetorics majors like I want to would be wrong. (and no, that doesn't count as apophasis)<br /> <br /><br />Best of luck, I look forward to seeing your response where you interpret this as "KiLl ThE FaTties!!1!".<br /><br />ps:<br />(If you read my posts, maybe you'll notice that I never said fat women can't be sexy, other than to quote your use reference accusing me of saying it. Or maybe that's too much to hope for. )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-45705742346398269562011-08-03T00:05:21.852-04:002011-08-03T00:05:21.852-04:00Anon, this isn't "spirited," this is...Anon, this isn't "spirited," this is asinine.<br /><br />Freakin' let it go already.<br /><br />I'll be over here, deciding to be fat (which I call "eating dinner").Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-46689981108008971072011-08-02T23:52:50.416-04:002011-08-02T23:52:50.416-04:00Addressing Mr. Monster's claims necessitated s...Addressing Mr. Monster's claims necessitated stating certain facts that might appear as if I believe that weight loss is trivially easy. <b>I don't</b>. I know from personal experience that it is hard. I just don't believe it's impossible.<br /><br />@Mr. Monster:<br /><br />(notsurewhatthe"fuckssake"isforyoustartedtalkingtome)<br /><br />So, just to make sure everyone is caught up, I'm a "villain". Avert your eyes, fair maidens, what follows is a summary of my evil, devious, smile-filled plan:<br /><br />Step 1: Answer question, <i>make no personal attacks</i><br /><br />Step 2: Wait to be asked a direct question and respond to that with an <i>unpopular opinion</i>. Damage to her self esteem will be maximized by not making any personal remarks.<br /><br />Step 3: When the blog writer asks me a direct question (and I know she will, because all smiling villains can see the future), address what she says <i>point by point</i><br /><br />Step 4: Repeat step 3 as needed, taking especial, villainous care to <i>clarify any points of confusion</i><br /><br />I don't mind you saying "I had a great argument showing exactly how you're wrong, but I'm not going to say it". I <b>do</b> mind you saying that I've ignored what anyone has said to me. That is simply a lie (if you have read my posts, willful ignorance if you haven't). I have responded to what every person who addressed me said. <br /><br /><br />Awesome, dude! (srs) You responded to my analogy! Allow me to show you the same courtesy:<br /><br />"For somebody to be fat does not require self-neglect"<br />---<br />So by your definition, lack of exercise and caloric excess isn't self-neglect?<br /><br />"nor do their "choices" (which you pin the blame on) have to be consistent or even recent."<br />---<br />So a moment of indulgence from years ago, makes a healthy diet (in the "what-I-eat" sense, not the "eat-weird-shit-for-a-little-while" sense) and exercise irrelevant? <br /><br />"In fact, your assertion that someone's physique is entirely due to their "choices" is just plain wrong"<br />---<br />You've misread my comment. I didn't claim that a "physique" was due to their choices, I said being fat was. Those are different. Mesomorphs can't turn ectomorph, that's obvious.<br /><br />"why you seem to disregard genetics and upbringing I can't say"<br />---<br />Because neither makes an informed adult unable to make unpleasant choices.<br /><br />"What they would like to do is not always what they end up doing."<br />---<br />This is a really intellectually dishonest bit of equivocation. Yes, what people visualize and tell themselves they will do, they don't always do. But, there is no circumstance where someone physically initiates an action to lose weight, and their brain says "DOES NOT COMPUTE" and they become paralyzed. <br /><br />"they'll still end up a variety of sizes based on factors other than their own personal preference."<br />---<br />But not other than their caloric intake. Which is subject to choice.<br /><br /><br /><br />I'd like to thank Holly for graciously allowing a spirited discussion such as this one to continue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-8025745045019435802011-08-02T20:17:05.836-04:002011-08-02T20:17:05.836-04:00(ohforfuck'ssake)
@Girdle Troll:
First, I...(ohforfuck'ssake)<br /><br />@Girdle Troll:<br /><br />First, I'm pretty sure you know damn well where you insult people, and I think you take great pleasure in doing so. Just because you can smile, and smile, and be a villain doesn't make what you're saying OK.<br /><br />You know what? I had a point-by point response all mapped out, but then I realised I was just re-stating what other posters had tried to get across to you. Which you ignored. So I'm not going to waste my time. <br /><br />The one thing I would really like to say is that your poor hygiene analogy doesn't work. For someone to have consistently poor hygiene requires them to conistently neglect themselves. For somebody to be fat does not require self-neglect, nor do their "choices" (which you pin the blame on) have to be consistent or even recent. In fact, your assertion that someone's physique is <i>entirely</i> due to their "choices" is just plain wrong: why you seem to disregard genetics and upbringing I can't say, but also please bear in mind that someone's <i>ideal</i> actions are often curtailed by circumstance. What they would like to do is not always what they end up doing. So people can "choose" to do the things that will make them thinner (or fatter) all they want; they'll still end up a variety of sizes based on factors other than their own personal preference.<br /><br />tl:dnr Yeah - just "Nuh-uh"<br /><br />And that's all I'm going to say on this.Mr Monsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-35047485684874480862011-08-01T22:21:41.755-04:002011-08-01T22:21:41.755-04:00@Mr. Monster:
Really? No "you're wrong a...@Mr. Monster:<br /><br />Really? No "you're wrong about my analogy, here's why" or "here's where you insulted people"?<br /><br />Just "Nuh-uh"? <br /><br />Really?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-81461496920813699092011-08-01T19:56:27.165-04:002011-08-01T19:56:27.165-04:00"I've insulted no one." Anon
Wrong ...<i>"I've insulted no one."</i> Anon<br /><br />Wrong again.Mr Monsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-36584394389989848762011-08-01T17:47:45.823-04:002011-08-01T17:47:45.823-04:00I - I have a confession to make.
My mother was a ...I - I have a confession to make.<br /><br />My mother was a fat woman. No judgements made here, she was my mother and she was awesome and that was that. And as you've said, pigs are adorable, intelligent, clean, and personable animals. And my five-year-old self thought he was very clever, after watching a documentary on pigs, by making a direct comparison to my mother - and then proceeded to not understand in the slightest why this prompted a spanking, <i>because pigs are awesome you guys what did I say wrong???</i><br /><br />(Though if any good came of this, it was probably that my parents saw how useless the punishment was and took to telling my what I'd done and why it was wrong, thereafter.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-17652778888132267712011-08-01T01:33:01.662-04:002011-08-01T01:33:01.662-04:00The "I'm not fat!" or "I'm ...The "I'm not fat!" or "I'm not a dyke!" thing reminds me of something I read in the book Yellow, where the author talks about the dilemma Asian Americans sometimes find ourselves in when ppl attack us and say "Asian ppl eat dogs!" or something along those lines. xD And the thing is, if you respond by "No we don't!" or "I'm not like those Asians, I don't!" we're admitting that there's something wrong with it (when in some cultures, or places, eating dogs does happen, I mean which animals are different from others is a cultural construct), and something wrong w/ "those" Asian ppl. :\ So the solution he suggests is to question why is that an insult? Why is that bad? What's wrong w/ eating dogs? :] Like you did in the post. What's wrong w/ being a dyke? :] Even if you're not, why is it bad if you are?<br /><br />What's wrong with being fat? (I know it's pretty ironic for me to say that since I've got the ED :\ and maybe I have no right to :\)Ami Angelwingshttp://ami-rants.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-11399590903856879582011-07-31T23:08:24.025-04:002011-07-31T23:08:24.025-04:00I don't know what you're trying to prove t...I don't know what you're trying to prove then, anon.<br /><br />We agree, awesome, handshake, I'm going to bed.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-89126207744410563002011-07-31T23:04:59.293-04:002011-07-31T23:04:59.293-04:00In response to your second post,
You have my resp...In response to your second post,<br /><br />You have my respect. Taking what you posted seriously and responding to it is a sign of respect. If I didn't respect you, why would I do that? If I didn't respect you, and I was interested in hurting your feelings, why wouldn't I just cut to the chase and say something horrible like "tl;dr fatty"? I don't spend time thinking about what people that I don't respect say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-34158543412594020342011-07-31T23:00:46.908-04:002011-07-31T23:00:46.908-04:00Holly,
Ok, I'm sorry, but I don't see how...Holly,<br /><br />Ok, I'm sorry, but I don't see how you can say "you keep continuing this argument" is the basis for the "you're insulting me" thing. You started the interaction by talking to me, I responded to what you said point by point, because that's what a respectful discussion is. As I understood it, when we were talking, it was very civil.<br /><br />I only started posting again because other posters insulted me, as well as made very poor analogy. I did not harp on a subject with no provocation. Literally <b>every single post</b> of mine has been a reply. Every one.<br /><br />I think there's a misunderstanding here; I didn't say "being fat is a choice", because that's not true. What I said was "[being fat is] entirely due to a person's choices". Plural. That's why it's difficult, because it's not a single choice, it's thousands in succession. Saying "fat is a choice" is asinine and wrong. Just like being muscular isn't choosing to go to the gym once, being fat or not fat isn't a single choice. <br /><br />I am sorry that when I originally said that, it wasn't more clear, I should have realized that clarification was necessary, because nearly everyone doesn't mean what I meant when they comment on choice.<br /><br />I don't know why you're bringing up the girdle thing. I'm sure you can wear nice dresses. I'm not interested in insulting you. You seem cool, from the blog posts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-433083609066073582011-07-31T22:50:52.706-04:002011-07-31T22:50:52.706-04:00Also, seriously, how often does someone ask you &q...Also, seriously, how often does someone ask you "do you find fat people sexy?"<br /><br />It's such a non-issue.<br /><br />Although not as much of a non-issue as the myth that fat girls want your boner. We really just want your respect, and answering that request with "WELL YOU CAN'T HAVE MY BONER" is deeply disrespectful and also rather "women are for sex"-objectifying.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-68364744365621749392011-07-31T22:44:59.418-04:002011-07-31T22:44:59.418-04:00Anon, you're insulting me. I'm much short...Anon, you're insulting <i>me</i>. I'm much shorter than Ms. Hendricks and much heavier. And while I'm not offended that you don't find me sexy--hell, there's lots of people I don't find sexy, for all sorts of reasons!--I'm a bit offended that you keep continuing this argument, as it suggests some issues with fat that go well beyond "doesn't give me a boner, but hell, neither does granite or a domestic mouse."<br /><br />I'm also insulted by your statement that fat is a choice, because I have many times made the choice to be skinny, but it hasn't worked yet. I have never once made the choice to be fat. I've made the choice to not be hungry, but that's a very different thing.<br /><br />Also, I don't ever wear a girdle. Seriously. And I can even wear nice dresses! Turns out that--like girdles--they make dresses in all sorts of sizes.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-31164142676327156342011-07-31T22:33:05.656-04:002011-07-31T22:33:05.656-04:00Holly,
Wait, what? How? I've insulted no on...Holly,<br /><br />Wait, what? How? I've insulted no one. I'm responding to people who have insulted me.<br /><br />I've made clear, in almost every post, that we have differences of opinion, and that I don't seek to make anyone feel bad because they disagree with me.<br /><br />I agree <b>completely</b> that's it's not an excuse to be a "dickbag". Completely. Without reservation. I agree that it's morally neutral. I never said it wasn't. I agree that it's difficult to change.<br /><br />If you're upset that my responses to the insulting posts of mythago and Mr Monster is not quite as courteous as my previous posts, I'm sorry. Really. I attempted to respond to them as politely as possible. I know that having rude comments on your blog isn't cool, so I did my best to deal with what they said without worsening the situation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-88787291980620586422011-07-31T22:22:49.520-04:002011-07-31T22:22:49.520-04:00Anon, I believe you have crossed what is called in...Anon, I believe you have crossed what is called in astrophysics the Troll Event Horizon.<br /><br />I don't really feel like re-explaining everything I've ever said about weight (it's morally neutral, it's difficult to change at will, it's not an excuse to be a dickbag, it's an attribute of a human being who has feelings), so I'll just say--you're starting to sound suspiciously like a "but fatties are FAT" troll. Knock it off.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-87888551914243100692011-07-31T22:19:15.748-04:002011-07-31T22:19:15.748-04:00Um, wow, I guess I'm kind of obligated to resp...Um, wow, I guess I'm kind of obligated to respond. Here goes:<br /><br />@mythago:<br /><br />Two things about your Christina Hendricks assertions:<br />1) I don't recall agreeing that the 154 number was correct in the first place<br />2) For the last time, read my post about the differences in determining fatness. You can cite numbers (accurate or not) all you want, but if someone has a gut so large they need to wear a girdle to fit into a dress, they are fat (also for the last time, "imo" is implied whenever not talking about statements of fact).<br /><br />I surprised I have to point this out, but I didn't insult you (or Holly, or Simone) for having a difference of opinions. (I also didn't pat myself on the back for ripping off Patton Oswalt's "douche-random word" bit)<br /><br />@Mr Monster:<br /><br />Comparing "fat people aren't sexy" to "black people aren't sexy" is wrong in about every way possible. A more accurate comparison would be "people who have poor hygeine aren't sexy".<br /><br />Why? I'll walk you through it: being "fat", like having poor hygeine, is entirely due to a person's choices (repeated, made hundreds of times), completely changeable, and reflects to some degree or another on what the person values. *None* of these things are true about skin tone or eye color.<br /><br />Your moralizing that follows this terrible analogy is tedious, and I suspect not really an invitation for me to comment so much as a chance to vent your frustrations. I'm happy to let you have that.<br /><br />Insulting me for having a difference of opinion? Directly after criticizing my "values"? I'm not sure if you're familiar with hypocrisy, but excellent work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-39145593745899973992011-07-31T20:20:19.615-04:002011-07-31T20:20:19.615-04:00Oh, the multi-layered levels of wrong...
@mythago...Oh, the multi-layered levels of wrong...<br /><br />@mythago: Totally with you on the height/weight thing, but you kinda lost me on the insults. Female parts? Not gross, generally speaking, and also normally self-cleaning, so I'm strugling to see where an unnecessary "hygiene" device gets its insultiness from.<br /><br />May as well call them an antiperspirant and have done with it.<br /><br />Also, "fuckmuppet" is not meaningless. In fact, there's probably a large number of people with a Miss Piggy fetish. Or maybe Gonzo...<br /><br />@Anon: saying "fat people aren't sexy" is as ridiculous as saying "black people aren't sexy", or "blue-eyed people aren't sexy". <br />It reduces their entire physique, shape, size, level of athleticism and style of movement into one derogatory word, and then ignores <i>every other meaningful thing</i> about that person. Whether it's "just" your opinion or not, saying it tells people much more about your values than it ever will about the supposed "fat people" you have in mind.<br /><br />PS. Wasn't sure who this Hendricks person is that we're using as a benchmark ... then I followed the link ... now I'm wondering just how sane Anon 9:18 actually is. No, really, who were you talking about again?Mr Monsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-4798633159329484012011-07-31T19:27:04.098-04:002011-07-31T19:27:04.098-04:00If you're going to argue that being 5'8&qu...If you're going to argue that being 5'8" and 154 is "very overweight" by definition, then yes, you're being a douchecanoe.<br /><br />(I also like 'douchecanoe' because it's so silly and meaningless. Like 'fuckmuppet'. 'Douchebag', however, is an insult because a douchebag is a gross thing, being used to clean female parts.)mythagohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138471078836187498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79975066497155833982011-07-31T18:18:51.148-04:002011-07-31T18:18:51.148-04:00Holly,
Well, I asked you some questions after you...Holly,<br /><br />Well, I asked you some questions after you asked me some questions, so there's that. <br /><br />I'm sorry if it's frustrating or something, that wasn't my intention. I thought that it was fair to ask you questions since you started talking to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83916632959726614872011-07-31T18:15:44.969-04:002011-07-31T18:15:44.969-04:00Anon, I don't even know what we're arguing...Anon, I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore.<br /><br />The only think I'm really trying to prove is "be nice to people" and beyond that, ugh, whatever.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.com