tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post7567277556333717252..comments2024-03-22T05:55:48.117-04:00Comments on The Pervocracy: What I Mean When I Say I'm Sex-Positive.Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-12637164580282618512014-02-06T13:02:41.997-05:002014-02-06T13:02:41.997-05:00I just discovered this blog and this is the first ...I just discovered this blog and this is the first article I've read. I'm going to link it on my facebook; I seriously approve of it that much. My blog is dealing with Japanese issues and still trying to name things like "gender binary" and "transgender" in Japanese, we're not even here yet. But I've always been leery of the term sex-positive for both reasons above-the positive/HIV association (which is a very DIFFERENT conversation, but like you said, if kids got REAL sex-ed...) and the whole shaming asexuals side. I'm gay and ploy, I have bi and mono, bi-poly, hetero-mono, gay-mono, etc., friends of many different colours, gender identities and countries/ethnicities and I've always gone for an all-inclusive approach. Growing up part-white in Koube and part-Asian in Florida, you see why. Hence, I've been wary of the term, just like I once was of "feminism" because of TERFs. But if this can be called sex-positivity, then I'm definitely sex-positive, because I completely agree. If they visit this page again, I also loved what goth-is-not-emo, Craig Ross and Juniper had to say.agoodcupofteahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02954525870289952975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-24011700310940223102013-11-29T11:24:08.416-05:002013-11-29T11:24:08.416-05:00I just rediscovered this blog because of your ongo...I just rediscovered this blog because of your ongoing and very entertaining Fifty Shades of Grey review, and I found this old post and want to comment. <br /><br />I really like what you said here about what you DO NOT mean by being sex-positive:<br /><br /> •Accepting someone’s way of having sex means you have to participate in it, watch them engage in it, or hear about it in detail.<br /><br />This really hits home for me these days. A side-effect of all the media constantly sending the message that heterosexual women turn bisexual, or gay, at the drop of a hat, causes heterosexual women such as me to be accused of being closed-minded, repressed, homophobic, etc. for NOT wanting to participate in sexual activity with other women. I'm none of those things. I'm heterosexual. And my sexual orientation is just as genetic and unchangeable as that same media constantly reminds us it is for homosexuals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-10479133272666434882013-11-20T23:11:07.959-05:002013-11-20T23:11:07.959-05:00"Some people have physical or psychological i..."Some people have physical or psychological issues that interfere with them having sex. Trying to "free" any of these people from their "repression" is ignorant, presumptuous, and the very opposite of promoting sexual freedom."<br />Hmm, I think this is highly problematic. People internalize all kinds of harmful things - reinforcing complacency is the same as being enabler - which is a bad thing. Trying to help people overcome these things is good, trying to promote a culture that says people loose out for being attached to these fears IS being sex-positive. It is, essentially, how we moved from a puritan, christian, oppressive society and had a sexual revolution - which is cultural phenomenon, that requires breaking out of the shell individually and in society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-67640149724255931782013-10-11T13:23:46.512-04:002013-10-11T13:23:46.512-04:00got to this via feministwire article on sex-positi...got to this via feministwire article on sex-positivity, love it, linking, quoting, thank you, deadline! xxxoooSally Wildehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14818000777385527996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-20387017919060146972013-07-22T00:10:01.624-04:002013-07-22T00:10:01.624-04:00I just found your blog today, thank you so much fo...I just found your blog today, thank you so much for writing this! This is exactly how I feel about sex related issues, and I'll probably end up linking back here if I ever need to explain to others c:<br /><br />I will be reading more from you for sure!HighVirushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17887720484358984779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-80852843605907650062013-06-22T10:01:45.192-04:002013-06-22T10:01:45.192-04:00Hi! here's a sex positive definition that we&#...Hi! here's a sex positive definition that we've been working on (and with the help of teams of dedicated webelves) have installed at Sex-Positive.com<br /><br />“sex positivity is an approach to human sexuality regarding individual choices of consensual sexual expression which over time cultivate health and happiness as fundamentally good”<br /><br />We don't have working comments yet... but soon!! and we would love responses from any folks who feel they have something to say, whether thats a specific critique of the statements structure or a more poetic input informing of its feel, we're down to listen. (just a few more days till site design beta2 w/comments, so yeah :)<br /><br />aloha,<br />maxAaron Max Feinhttp://www.sex-positive.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-72690786504308997072013-06-03T12:45:01.598-04:002013-06-03T12:45:01.598-04:00He's the motherfuckin' pride-o-dactyl...He's the motherfuckin' pride-o-dactyl...perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-73004790959086767002013-05-26T11:02:36.452-04:002013-05-26T11:02:36.452-04:00How dare you? How DARE you foist upon a child the...How dare you? How DARE you foist upon a child the burden of being an unintended “consequence” of sex? Especially since we know that such children are more likely to be born into to poverty, to be born to immature or drug-addicted mothers, and to experience abuse and neglect. It makes me want to spit nails that the children I meet in the psych ward are portrayed as the “happy ending” by pro-lifers. Have you no pity at all? <br />You know who else I get to meet in the hospital? People who are dying of kidney failure. Some of these people are a good match for me. If I gave these people my kidney, they would live. If I don’t, they will die. Strange how pro-lifers regard my uterus as free for the taking by anything that happens to lodge itself there, but my kidneys? No! We must have respect for bodily autonomy when we’re talking about non-uterus organs! Or maybe it’s just that the life of the post-born is less important. <br />I’m currently 11 weeks into my first (very much planned and wanted) pregnancy. As every woman does who has a planned and wanted biological child, I am willingly putting my health on the line for this pregnancy. Right now, I’m experiencing what essentially amounts to a 5-week hangover (and not done yet). On bad days, I can’t stand for longer than a minute at a time. I’m extremely fortunate to have an employer who makes accommodations. If I were a waitress, I would have been fired or put on involuntary furlough by now, because I simply could not do the job. I know that I’m putting myself at permanent risk for varicose veins, venous insufficiency (which increases the risk for a host of cardiovascular problems), hemorrhoids, organ prolapse (which may require major abdominal surgery), permanent nerve damage, and auto-immune disorders. There are even rare but real risks like Sheehan’s syndrome (where part of your brain dies) and amniotic embolism (which usually causes sudden death). <br />And people like you think that people like me should have to be involuntarily put through these risks because the alternative would be “consequenceless gratification” which would be…bad? Congratulations on seeking to increase the sum of misery in the world. I hope you’re very proud of yourself. <br />Junipernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-23022045622899478732013-05-19T16:02:08.879-04:002013-05-19T16:02:08.879-04:00I agree with everything you have here but still fe...I agree with everything you have here but still feel alienated from sex-positivity for all its value and neccesity. BLog post here. http://darklordcal.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/my-disillusionment-with-sex-positivity/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14399523772889550375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-11588150562567609012013-05-18T00:13:19.294-04:002013-05-18T00:13:19.294-04:00Is it wrong to be attracted to my aunt? I think sh...Is it wrong to be attracted to my aunt? I think she feels the same way i do?karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04958110477853076477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-65351622985622209282013-05-17T00:41:10.689-04:002013-05-17T00:41:10.689-04:00Irine
I should've said "In my limited exp...Irine<br />I should've said "In my limited experience this is what sexual ethics seems to involve some of the time." I realise you didn't say that, apologies :( <br /><br />theLapdanceDeamon<br />That was really interesting and persuasive, thanks :D. I'm super way less of an expert than you, I think that there is a lot of stuff that healthy sexual values and gender theory don't touch involved in that kind of crime; but I admit that I don't really know a lot and think that you are probably right.<br /><br />I was just trying to say that sometimes these things can have not only positive consequences and that the framing and using of tactics to scare people into getting into it can be counterproductive to the promotion of healthy sexual attitudes, and that is often not included in the debate. Somebody just randomly linked to this on reddit and I thought that this was left out of the OP, I just thought I'd chime in. It was nice talking with all of you and I like your website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-88354887778132871762013-05-16T22:28:39.813-04:002013-05-16T22:28:39.813-04:00Dude, so much this! I really needed to read this -...Dude, so much this! I really needed to read this - I'm mid-twenties, and reeeeaaally sick of telling people that being a feminist, a sex-positive feminist, and an independent woman are NOT reliant on whether or not I've had sex. Fuck, if I decide to wait until marriage, or have sex this weekend, or put an indefinite "until I'm comfortable with it" term, or decide I'm just creeped out by the whole idea and I don't want sex EVER - that's MY FLIPPING CHOICE. Just like everyone else has their choice!<br /><br />Thank you so much for this post, Cliff!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-92063182847583434792013-05-16T00:19:15.249-04:002013-05-16T00:19:15.249-04:00Yes, fuck yes!!!
-FishgoatYes, fuck yes!!!<br /><br />-FishgoatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-50091291155691606762013-05-15T22:57:13.744-04:002013-05-15T22:57:13.744-04:00So agree! I'm fifty and by earthly standards a...So agree! I'm fifty and by earthly standards a virgin - NO sexual activity with another person ever, and not interested in masturbation, either - but anyone who suggests I'm repressed or unhappy or damaged is talking out of their arse. My situation is slightly different in that my beloved is in Spirit and we have a very satisfactory sex life that way - you could say the mind rather than the earthly body, if you like - but the MUST HAVE ORGAZZZZZMSSS crew would probably not get that, either.<br /><br />Kittehserf<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-80912678159704154022013-05-15T22:47:35.130-04:002013-05-15T22:47:35.130-04:00Well said, Nick Kiddle. Transcendence from masturb...Well said, Nick Kiddle. Transcendence from masturbation? Even if one doesn't have serious issues, there are those of us who really don't care for it; I find it boring. Give me my beloved, or memories of what-we-did-in-Spirit-last-night, anytime.<br /><br />KittehserfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-71755848909984244552013-05-15T20:01:13.950-04:002013-05-15T20:01:13.950-04:00@Anonymous
The thing about emphasizing consent......@Anonymous<br /><br />The thing about emphasizing consent...<br /><br />I am also not an expert on this, but if I understand correctly (and I don't have the citations on hand, I can look for them if you want) rapists mostly fall into two groups: Repeat offenders who know damn well what they are doing and assault MANY people throughout their lives, and one-time offenders who are usually young and receptive to rehabilitation. <br /><br />I think that emphasizing consent helps deal with both groups. For the latter group, that's obvious - if you're receptive to rehabilitation, you're probably a good candidate for prevention too.<br /><br />For the former group, it's an indirect effect. No, they won't listen when you tell them yesmeansyes/nomeansno. But you can create a culture where violations of consent - both overtly sexual and not - are considered *big red flags* and socially unacceptable behavior, you've made it a lot harder for those rapists to operate. If their friends and family members aren't willing to hide behind "but he's such a good guy!" and "well, she DID let him get to third base..." the social consequences of being a rapist become much higher than they are now.<br /><br />Also, quite frankly...while the situation Ozy describes is certainly real for many people, I think it's also a totally normal reaction to freak out a little if you've been having sex for some time but haven't given much of a thought to good consent before. It's normal to be a little paranoid while you reset your consent-barometer. All but one of the people I have slept with has had a slightly off consent-barometer, and mine took some fining tuning too. It is important to separate the anxiety that comes from "I haven't seriously thought about this before, and I need to start seriously thinking about it NOW" from Ozy's consent paranoia that comes from second-guessing zir partner's stated desires.theLaplaceDemonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-2150823183310049352013-05-15T14:00:08.338-04:002013-05-15T14:00:08.338-04:00I don't think that it should be more of a mora...<em>I don't think that it should be more of a moral obligation for one partner than the other to make the other have a good time.</em><br /><br />Good thing I didn't say that, then. My point is that consent (shared consent -- not just one person saying "yes" to the other) is a much deeper concept than it first appears, and a greater mindfulness of it is beneficial all the way around. Irenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-21979491059972560082013-05-15T02:51:44.041-04:002013-05-15T02:51:44.041-04:00Cliff Pervocracy
I agree with all of your examples...Cliff Pervocracy<br />I agree with all of your examples about cultural stuff, my issue is with the way sexual ethics is framed in terms of rape, consent and moral obligations rather than getting people to care about trust and being attentive to their partners; how to learn what you like, express your desires and have the most fun etc. Obviously knowledge of consent is needed but I think that it can is sometimes be overelaborated. Framing bad sex as morally reprehensible does have negative consequences in some cases; one of these is most people (especially men) will just ignore you. I’m not sure that sexual ethics, in lots of the ways that it’s currently framed, is the best way to achieve more people who know their desires and can communicate. They seem to have it better in Europe where kids often learn from a younger age about sex, that their body isn't dirty and the importance of caring and trust etc, this is often loose etiquette and common sense rather than a suite of rules and obligations. <br />“I think a lot of them don't know that what they're doing isn't the only/best/most gender-affirming/inevitable-accident/etc. way to have sex.” I’m doubtful that whatever you do rapists will listen. I'm not a super expert but they seem from what I've read to be people who are lacking in empathy, who don't care about other people and just want what they want. Maybe your way will result in creating less people like this though, I hope that you are right. <br /><br /> ozymandias<br /> Apologies for misrepresenting you. One of my friends went through a mandatory sexual ethics course at his college a while ago and got really into it, the effect on him was superficially pretty similar to your post. The rules of acting as if your touch or whatever, is not wanted, until it's super clear that it is and a few other things. It made him treat women like they were made of crystal or something. Ironically it looks like this led to more bad sex and disgruntlement for him and his partners than before. What I meant to say was that the rules in that pdf (and in the way they’re phrased in it) aren't necessarily the way to sexual utopia for a lot of people and they can even have negative effects. Are you fine with hammering on about consent even when the only people who listen already respect it. <br /><br />Irene. <br />I agree with what you say, I've had a lot of awful sex as well and wish that there was more of an environment that you describe. My issue (apart from the above) is that I don't think that it should be more of a moral obligation for one partner than the other to make the other have a good time. In most of the sexual ethics stuff I’ve seen, there is a moral onus on the ‘initiator’ to facilitate a positive interaction. I'm doubtful this achieves better results than just getting people to learn about sex and be more assertive etc.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-59746086745044281362013-05-14T21:40:57.460-04:002013-05-14T21:40:57.460-04:00It's not just a question of "rape" v...It's not just a question of "rape" versus "not-rape." It's whether you have an environment where it's okay to ask for what you want and work through your insecurities. It makes me slightly ill to think I <em>wasted so much damn time</em> not knowing how to do that. Frankly, I'm pretty fortunate that my sex life didn't end up a whole lot crappier than it is (and that I didn't hurt more people along the way).Irenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-21867288490535690652013-05-14T21:40:03.616-04:002013-05-14T21:40:03.616-04:00Okay yeah no, as the author of that post, consent ...Okay yeah no, as the author of that post, consent paranoia is not a sign that we should stop "endlessly hammering on people about consent." I am totally and 100% fine with endlessly hammering on people about consent. Consent is REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. <br /><br />In fact, my consent paranoia is the result of me not fully internalizing that my partner has bodily autonomy, and thus gets to say "yes" as well as "no."ozymandiashttp://ozyfrantz.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-53291173459982364702013-05-14T18:58:52.353-04:002013-05-14T18:58:52.353-04:00I actually agree that a lot of rapists know what t...I actually agree that a lot of rapists know what they're doing. However, I think a lot of them <i>don't</i> know that what they're doing isn't the only/best/most gender-affirming/inevitable-accident/etc. way to have sex. You're right in saying "don't rape people" isn't a very useful message; we have to go <i>way</i> beyond that! We have to address issues like the pressure on men to prove their masculinity via aggression, the romanticization of "the chase," the sexualization of unwitting or unwilling women, oh man we've got a lot to do. "Don't rape people," alone, isn't <i>nearly</i> enough.<br /><br />"with most 'vanilla' sex, people who care about other people, can communicate and have some basic common sense knowledge, seem to get right almost all the time."<br />Yes, but wouldn't it be cool if there were <i>more</i> people who cared about each other, could communicate, and had basic common sense knowledge? I mean, these aren't things you're born with.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-67806189315562188802013-05-14T17:52:20.513-04:002013-05-14T17:52:20.513-04:00Well telling people who don't rape people anyw...Well telling people who don't rape people anyway, don't rape people! again and again and again does have some negative consequences, I think that you have to acknowledge that. <br />Do you think that the promotion of feminist sexual ethics has ever changed the mind of any rapist (who iirc are people who by and large know what they're doing). What I see is people who aren't going to do that anyway, getting more and more concerned that they might do something wrong. I think that is relevant when you are doing BDSM stuff which is technically illegal, but with most 'vanilla' sex, people who care about other people, can communicate and have some basic common sense knowledge, seem to get right almost all the time.<br /><br /> Apologies for my poor analogy, but buying organic food is something people do for their own benefit, but also to think that they will change farming, when in actual fact the prevailing social and economic winds seem to be changing organic food; individual ethical actions seem not to have all that much power to change the world imho. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-28284496104470178852013-05-14T16:57:04.628-04:002013-05-14T16:57:04.628-04:00I fail to understand the comparison between not ra...I fail to understand the comparison between not raping people and buying organic food.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-81844440158148216682013-05-14T11:29:30.488-04:002013-05-14T11:29:30.488-04:00Interesting article, even though I'm not sure ...Interesting article, even though I'm not sure that I am a feminist, there is much to agree with. Here are some unsolicited opinions.... Some things I don't understand, you neglected to include people who buy sex in your guide, was this deliberate. I only say this because I just read Jill Filipvic's 'feminist utopia' article.<br /><br />Also the last paragraph about sexual ethics, I think that apart from some basic common sense things, the realm of sexual ethics outside of bondage etc/polyamory seems massively overelaborate and counterproductive, endlessly hammering on to people about consent has real effects http://ozyfrantz.com/2013/04/27/on-consent-paranoia/ that shouldn't be ignored in your debate. <br />The thought that it would lead to any meaningful change in the world is similar imho to trying to change society by buying organic food or something. It is nice that people like to do this and I hope it works out, but I think you overstate the case for it's world changing abilities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-55078802239075469822013-05-14T10:53:20.363-04:002013-05-14T10:53:20.363-04:00I grew up in a conservative and God-fearing religi...I grew up in a conservative and God-fearing religion, and what you say is true. Believers in these things believe that God's rules are not arbitrary but are put there for our protection. When following them failed to protect me, and breaking them did not harm me (or anyone else), I lost the ability to believe in the religion and its deity also.Rosienoreply@blogger.com