tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post8247869925158601333..comments2024-02-23T03:38:53.049-05:00Comments on The Pervocracy: "Why does she stay with that jerk?"Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger210125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-33518275689507312652014-04-27T21:20:26.636-04:002014-04-27T21:20:26.636-04:00Reading this entire blog back-to-front (newest fir...Reading this entire blog back-to-front (newest first), hence the years-after-the-fact comment. Still, I've got to get this off my chest.<br /><br />Here's another one: Pursuant to #13, there's a certain form of martyrdom: "Since I know how to deal with her, I should stay in relationship in order to spare others who might not get it if they got involved with her. Better to keep her in a sense locked up by devoting all her attention to me, since I know how to handle it, than to let her loose on the world where she could really do some evil."<br /><br />There's also a certain macho aspect of this (for all genders) that ties into #12--"I can't admit I'm not tough enough to take this; that would be a failure on my part, and as she always tells me, I have no persistence and I run too easily. I have to stay to prove her wrong on that count, or else I'll never be able to trust myself."Elio Lewisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-22712101263396542662014-03-14T22:48:17.002-04:002014-03-14T22:48:17.002-04:00I have experienced my brother (22 years old) emoti...I have experienced my brother (22 years old) emotionally abusing family members. It's complicated because he has a mental/psychological disability. He sometimes says very brutal things when he gets angry, such as the time he told me "Just wait until all your friends get shot dead. you won't be able to do anything about it" or telling our mother "everybody from your childhood is dead". Not ever sure if he knows the effect his words will have on us...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-69767758337586947362013-09-30T19:08:02.658-04:002013-09-30T19:08:02.658-04:003,8,11,12,19,and 20. What to do when you don't...3,8,11,12,19,and 20. What to do when you don't know what is normal? How do you date? How do you create a happy life for yourself? How do you find out what you want instead of what you don't want anymore of? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-76477950177556290432013-08-24T12:53:17.642-04:002013-08-24T12:53:17.642-04:00God, God, God, I feel for you. I'm glad you ca...God, God, God, I feel for you. I'm glad you can see it. It will take you years to get over it, but you can, and you will. My dad was like that, but fortunately he actually outgrew it - it's rare. But - oh, what you say resonates. Emotional abuse DOES EXIST and it's so much harder to prove than physical. But you're right.<br />Your mom is an abuse enabler, it's a sick thing but it can happen. You owe no-one anything. if she didn't step in to protect you, it's an abdication of her responsibility as a mother. Her abuse doesn't excuse her behavior. You owe her one email - you can copy the above - and then see what she does. That is ALL.<br />Hugs and courage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-5591381461534875582013-08-08T23:10:49.149-04:002013-08-08T23:10:49.149-04:00Thank you for this list, it was powerful and insig...Thank you for this list, it was powerful and insightful.Ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01842518661474612786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-61098269252209110192013-08-02T02:39:38.422-04:002013-08-02T02:39:38.422-04:00Man...19, with an unhealthy dose of 18, 11 and 3. ...Man...19, with an unhealthy dose of 18, 11 and 3. I know I'd never stay with someone who hit me, but what if they just say horrible, hurtful things? And say the same kind of things (or sometimes exactly the same ones) after you've told them how much they hurt? And in any case he was really pissed off and I shouldn't take it too much to heart, and I'm no angel, I'm emotional and kind of bitchy sometimes, and we were both under a lot of stress. That's why there was nothing wrong with me going off to cry for hours in his bathroom or kitchen after he fell asleep because he couldn't handle seeing it. Besides, I yelled at him too, so really this is my fault for being too touchy, or too emotional (because I should have better control over my tears, sure I've struggled with that my whole life but I should fix it now), or too insistent, or needing too much or missing his signals. And a few times I did get completely out of line, like when I tried to talk to him online about a problem we’d had and when he ignored me eventually went full on psycho creepy stalker and said I could just come over and finish the conversation (that part's dead serious, it wasn't cool and I was being legit scary.) But it was still somehow my job to fix things, make things work, act the right way, say the right things. And somehow when he got mad it meant his actions should be automatically excused.<br /><br />So thank you so much for writing this. I kept thinking I was just crazy because I hadn’t gotten over it, that I was clinging to the past and projecting my old problems onto my new (and wonderful) relationship because I was just irrational. Because the pressure to agree every time we had a conflict, the accusations of being overemotional or out of control, the threats to break up, the insistence that I should have been more careful, should have headed the fight off at the pass because he couldn’t help jumping on my wrongheaded argument (it seems now like he couldn’t help a lot of things)...I never believed it was abuse, right up until now. At most I considered the threats to break up as a kind of bullying, an obvious attempt to control me through fear, and my usual response to that is to dig in my heels and refuse on principle. But I really honestly never believed he could have been abusive. He’s a good, honorable man, one of the most dedicated fighters for improvement of the world I’ve ever met. More moral than I am, with an incredibly strict code of ethics for himself and others. It’s so hard to connect someone who honestly is a good person...most of the time, with really shitty things they do. Because even though I should know better it’s hard to fight the idea that only bad people do bad things. <br /><br />I guess long story short I have another one to add to the list:<br />20-something?: “But he/she’s a good person! Educated, feminist, activist people who dote on their pets and worry about their family don’t abuse people, certainly wouldn’t carry on a pattern of emotional abuse with a long-term partner. Only ignorant, cruel, selfish people do that. My mate cares so much about the world, about their loved ones, about -me-, he/she wouldn’t do that.”<br /><br />And thank you again. I’m lucky I never had to worry about the physical safety of myself or my loved ones, but my attitude toward relationships makes....so much more sense now. And I can see what I need to work on.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-66400017735537927792013-07-15T08:20:35.915-04:002013-07-15T08:20:35.915-04:00I wish some of these - 3, 16, and 19 in particular...I wish some of these - 3, 16, and 19 in particular - didn't make me consider my relationship with my girlfriend in an uncomfortable new light. I know she doesn't mean to do it (and even as I say that I have to cringe at how it sounds), that she doesn't understand how hurtful some of the things she says are to me.<br /><br />The thing is, she comes from an abusive family, and she has such low self esteem that she doesn't seem to get how it could possibly be hurtful to me to hear that obviously she's a lost cause and nothing I do can make any difference to that. I feel like it's selfish of me to be hurt, that there's something wrong with me for "making this about me" when obviously I'm the stronger and more stable of the two of us and obviously I should be supporting her. But it hurts to hear "no future" from someone when you've been planning your future with the assumption that they'll be in it.<br /><br />I don't know if I'm helping. I don't know if I /can/ help. But I don't want to be like every other person in her life who's given her up as more trouble than she's worth and moved on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-45437444876864867582013-06-16T17:07:00.699-04:002013-06-16T17:07:00.699-04:00She grew up in an abusive household. Her stepbroth...She grew up in an abusive household. Her stepbrother molested her. Her last girlfriend abused her. You grew up loved and cared for. You've never been harmed by anybody. You're the strong one. You're the healthy one. You're the mature one. So when she hits you or kicks you or pushes you or calls you a shithead or screams obscenities at you because you wanted an hour away from her to spend with your friends or your parents or tears you down and punishes you because she's threatened by anything good that happens to you, you have to wait it out. You have to be there for her. You have to resist the urge to yell back or hit back or tell her that what she's doing isn't okay, because that'll just make her angrier and more insecure and trust you even less. You have to stay and you have to take it and you have to prove to her that unconditional love really exists. Because if you can't, you're not worthy of all that love you got growing up. You're just the selfish, entitled, heartless shithead she says you are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-11834235505491603072013-05-28T07:24:37.978-04:002013-05-28T07:24:37.978-04:00From what I know of abuse, chances are he's st...From what I know of abuse, chances are he's still doing it. And there is a chance that he may have escalated the abuse into more serious things. One blogger on line (who has herself experienced domestic violence and escaped) has advice for how outsiders can be allies for people who are abused--try tags or search terms such as "abuse" "domestic violence" etc to find relevant posts: http://blobolobolob.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-17017029101179913552013-05-08T12:16:11.136-04:002013-05-08T12:16:11.136-04:00he occassionally says he wants a divorce from me b...he occassionally says he wants a divorce from me but after a couple of days comes back and says sorry.<br /><br /><br />Mine would do that, then it changed to "I've been telling you for years I want a divorce, why didn't you listen?"<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-23671370444549040852013-05-08T12:02:41.463-04:002013-05-08T12:02:41.463-04:00Stay strong. It gets better. Deciding to leave is ...Stay strong. It gets better. Deciding to leave is the hardest part. It's been a year and a half for me and I wouldnt have beleived how good my life could be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-68874659288752283172013-05-08T11:47:26.943-04:002013-05-08T11:47:26.943-04:00No one believed i was being abused by a younger si...No one believed i was being abused by a younger sibling, but I was. If you take it, you're a wimp. If you defend yourself you're a bully picking on a smaller kid. And if you ask for help, you're ignored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-48104955914039730612013-05-08T11:43:40.043-04:002013-05-08T11:43:40.043-04:00"Do you think it's possible for abusive b..."Do you think it's possible for abusive behaviour to grow slowly and insidiously so that the victim feels silly about complaining about it at any one point?"<br /><br />me too Nick Kiddle.<br /><br /> When the frog did jump out of the boiling water my abuser was astonished. But by then he'd told me he hated me, the marriage was over, and yet we had to stay together because we couldn't afford to separate. No domestic violence program would take me because he never hit me(this is not true, physical abuse isn't the only kind.) He'd kill my cat if I left. I should get a boyfriend so he'd feel less guilty about cheating on me. If i left i'd be dead on the street within a month.<br /><br />So I left and took the cat, found a domestic abuse shelter, found shelter for cat, and am now on my own with my cat. Still don't have a boyfriend, nor want one.<br /><br />Months of him telling me and my friends and relations all the bad thing I'd done and how he didn't mean anything the way it sounded.<br /><br />I still miss the sweet loving man he used to be in the early years. I still can't say when the change started, or when it got really bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-27545651275608034352013-02-28T15:19:05.922-05:002013-02-28T15:19:05.922-05:00You know, for me a therapist helped a lot.
Also, w...You know, for me a therapist helped a lot.<br />Also, whenever I got angry or knew I was about to say something stupid, I imagined how I would say it if I'd hug the other person, or just go and do that.<br />I also got in the habit of just talking about everything in a really soft way, that might not be the best thing, but it still helps.<br />For example I will just tell my boyfriend: "I'm feeling really jealous/betrayed/ignored and don't know why."<br />There are self help groups, and admitting to abusive behaviors is a big step.<br />People you trust and are on the outside of those cycles can be a big help.<br />My mother for example always told me when she thought I was out of line with my boyfriend, she is a very gentle person, so when I got angry I would call her and let her tell me how she would react. <br />And if all didn't help I just got away as quickly as possible until I was calm. Of course, some are only temporary solutions. <br />And in my experience, relationships that are abusive can change, but usually don't last, and if a person is a danger to others they shouldn't be in one, but some problems can only be worked through with more experience.<br />I know this is late, but maybe you will read it(or someone else) and it might be helpful?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-47251696302803286932013-02-05T10:06:46.123-05:002013-02-05T10:06:46.123-05:00"Do you think it's possible for abusive b..."Do you think it's possible for abusive behaviour to grow slowly and insidiously so that the victim feels silly about complaining about it at any one point?"<br /><br />It happened to me. I was looking back yesterday over the way my first boyfriend treated me (this is going back years, I've just started in therapy). He started out just mocking and belittling things I liked, and I accepted that because my mum did the same. Then he started ordering me about, making me stop what I was doing to listen to some music he wanted me to hear, doing things I'd told him made me feel embarrassed. And then he sexually assaulted me, and it took me years to realise it was assault. It was just more of his usual arsehole behaviour that happened to involve my genitals.Nick Kiddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157667039265611431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-11605327026420292402012-11-07T05:46:00.226-05:002012-11-07T05:46:00.226-05:00You know the saying "We should teach 'do ...You know the saying "We should teach 'do not rape' instead of 'don't get raped'"?<br />My parents are in a mix of #11, #13 and #19 relationship, my dad is completely devoted to my mother and doesn't think he would be able to live without her, despite everything - same for my Brother and me. And while I realize how bad it is for everyone, I also realize I have copied and internalized some abusive behaviours in my own relationships.<br />Mainly the exploding, crying and apologizing cycle. I don't get physically abusive but I scream and accuse and make others feel guilty, not realizing my own fault until way after. I'm very insecure and feel I always have to take in and endure, but it builds up and builds up, and then just explodes when I can't take it anymore. And it's usually about minor things like wanting my advise but then doing something completely different, which makes me feel betrayed and useless. When I explode I just want to hurt them like they hurt me, make them feel guilty and acknowledge my worth, but then I realize how I've hurt them and I try to make it up and hope it never happens again.<br />I don't know if there are guides about how to not abuse, but there should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-91384053614068288002012-10-29T16:09:45.778-04:002012-10-29T16:09:45.778-04:002, 3, 6, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20. 21.
She's my...2, 3, 6, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20. 21.<br /><br />She's my sister. She's my responsibility. How can I expect her not to be violent when I know better than anyone that she was brought up to believe that this is just how families work? How can I expect her to keep her rages under control when I know perfectly well that she is mentally ill and it's not her fault? Therapy didn't work. Meds don't work. How can I leave her, when nobody else will be willing to tolerate her behaviour and give her the care she needs? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-4788756437512475092012-10-11T11:42:49.365-04:002012-10-11T11:42:49.365-04:00This was disturbing to read.
I've experienc...This was disturbing to read. <br /><br />I've experienced 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17 almost word for word, from my family. I still find myself stumbling to explain why I cut ties with them, because most of it was emotional, and even the physical violence was rooted in the sense that I truly HAD brought it on myself... If I didn't want my mom to attack me and tear my hair out, I shouldn't have sworn at her. If I didn't want my aunt to drag me out of a restaurant bathroom hard enough to leave bruises, I shouldn't have retreated to the bathroom when she, my mother, and grandmother, were belittling me and mocking my refusal to show anger. <br /><br />I moved cross country, hoping distance would help. It didn't. For years, I drifted from abusive relationship to abusive relationship, never realizing that the normality of it in my family was already predisposing me to be a victim. But so long as I allowed my family's behavior, even if it was held at a distance, it was impossible to set strong boundaries in other relationships. <br /><br />To begin to grow past it, I had to move to another state from the address they had, change my name, change my phone, abandon ALL of my friendships from the community I grew up, abandon ALL of the relatives who had simply been bystanders, but who might pass information to the abusers, or allow the abusers to manipulate me. <br /><br />I'm getting married soon, to a loving man who has NEVER done anything that resembles one of the bullet points on this list. But I've caught a few of these in my own behavior, especially 18. I want to see him as a bad guy, because so many others have been, even when his behavior doesn't warrant it. Over the years we've been together, we've worked on that inclination, and managed to dull it somewhat, but there are many times when I catch myself trying to recreate the same patterns I experienced growing up. There's never really an apology strong enough to make up for it. <br /><br />Abuse never really leaves you. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-89473701520035856542012-09-02T11:02:29.211-04:002012-09-02T11:02:29.211-04:00The catalyst for me leaving my emotionally abusive...The catalyst for me leaving my emotionally abusive husband was when I found myself saying "Well, at least he doesn't hit me." Rowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10727475905818162472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-73057215817980491382012-08-30T07:31:04.332-04:002012-08-30T07:31:04.332-04:00I know this post is old, but I just really wanted ...I know this post is old, but I just really wanted to tell you that your post saved my ass last year. My father was very abusive, he didn't hit me, he did other stuff. I didn't realize how similar my relationship was to the one with my father, with all the mind games and stuff, but reading this was the first real step.<br />It's been over a year now, but i finally fell somewhat myself again, so I thought this was the right time to finally say: Thank you so much!<br /><br />Greetings from Germany<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-387553279229339042012-08-08T14:32:54.995-04:002012-08-08T14:32:54.995-04:00I cried so hard while reading 2). I got myself out...I cried so hard while reading 2). I got myself out of an abusive relationship literally this morning, and a lot of crazy shit happened today. Obviously, I can't even BEGIN to think about anything else than him. <br /><br />He seemed dreamy before we met. He had some active haters, but his art was so beautiful and I was enchanted. I knew already he's not the sanest guy out there - like I was a perfectly healthy gal myself, lol. I wrote to him and things escalated quickly. It took us month to create a separate universe, where we met and loved each other the way we wanted, not how the "society" would teach. We seemed so far away from reality, and I loved it, because I'm an artist myself, very sensitive, big dreamer, living at least half of her life in her head. My dreams came true and I couldn't be happier. I gave him my virginity - something I cherished and kept sacred all my life; I wanted to save it for someone special. After barely two months of knowing each other, we slept together. It must have been the most beautiful time of my life so far.<br /><br />I have no idea when the abuse began. I experienced 11, 12, 15, 16 and 20; 2, 8, 9, 10, 13, 17, 18, 19 also appeared, slightly different. 17 is actually strongly connected to what Anon wrote up there. Basically, in our made up, lovely world, I was supposed to be a loving, devoted wife, who would never even think of leaving. I liked it, actually; as long as it was a part of the game. Soon it turned out he was serious. And today, when he pinned me to the wall and clutched my wrists, whispering things like "you're just a woman, I'm your husband and you must stay with me, stop your silly female jokes and obey me right now" to my ear and neck - that was the moment I realized things went too far. I was so close to breaking down, letting him in and possibly rape me. He used our beautiful world against me. And I almost let him destroy me with it.<br /><br />Right now, I am at home, he came to his senses - at least that's what he claims - and I catch myself crying because I miss him. I miss our universe. <br />Right now, I would gladly crawl back to him and beg for forgiveness, if only I could see him being as sexy and charming as he can be. I detest myself. I'm scared to death that I can never have what I had with him. I have such a long way ahead of me to recovery, but reading comments here somehow keeps me together. Thank you for this post, for all stories posted here - if it wasn't for it, I wouldn't even know I'm being abused. Really. This was my first true relationship and I had no idea how does it even work...and sorry for any mistakes, English is not my first language. I think I needed to get out a lot of shit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-44831854043959693152012-08-02T15:37:43.988-04:002012-08-02T15:37:43.988-04:00this isn't who she is. this is what she does. ...this isn't who she is. this is what she does. she doesn't understand what she's doing. <br /><br />so you stand up to her, because no one else is willing. you yell right back and then run away. you're not very sure that she listens.<br /><br />but you love her. love is a choice, not an emotion. and the most loving thing you can think of to do is to not let her get away with her crap.<br /><br />(you can't just stand by and watch as she blames your dad for everything wrong with her life, accuses him of cheating and being a slob. it's not his fault he can't find a job. it's not his fault she has to work night shifts and sleep all day and never sees her family. it's not anyone's fault. but there it is.)<br /><br />it's complicated. so you live with it.<br /><br />(besides, it's not that bad.)starnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-1138813429586920702012-07-19T23:53:20.721-04:002012-07-19T23:53:20.721-04:00From a recent Captain Awkward post I thought of a ...From a recent Captain Awkward post I thought of a variation on #20 (or perhaps a combination of #17 and #20): "People of that gender are like that." Someone who believes it's (for example) a man's nature to be violent/authoritarian/etc. will consider leaving a man for behaving that way both an overreaction and futile.Hershele Ostropolernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-7029308389917338732012-07-05T20:44:00.943-04:002012-07-05T20:44:00.943-04:001, 3, 5, 8, 16, and 19. I got out, but I'm sti...1, 3, 5, 8, 16, and 19. I got out, but I'm still terrified of him, and I don't know what to do with myself now. Thank you for posting this.Joannahttp://thingsunknownbutlongedfor.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-17221860200858985962012-07-01T18:35:23.358-04:002012-07-01T18:35:23.358-04:00Much later than your post, I know. But it got to m...Much later than your post, I know. But it got to me that you mentioned 'if this sounds remotely like you, call ...'. What if it does sound like you, but from the other end. What if you recognize the way you treat your significant other in this. How do you move forward from this? <br />Great post anyway. Thank you.<br />From a child of an alcoholic who fears having been imprinted on abusive relationships and not being able to have 'healthy' (happy?) ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com