tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post5693815601125531248..comments2024-03-22T05:55:48.117-04:00Comments on The Pervocracy: Scenes from an Apocalyptic Orgy.Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-2505114866218074562010-07-28T11:58:27.808-04:002010-07-28T11:58:27.808-04:00Oh -- and Holly, imagine the commentary across fem...Oh -- and Holly, imagine the commentary across feminism, vegetarianism and safe play if I had inserted a kebab into you. You'd need an entire new blog just to handle it all (The Kebabracy?)<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-10239589879389041002010-07-28T11:57:01.408-04:002010-07-28T11:57:01.408-04:00ladies and Gentlemen -- and all the rest of you pe...ladies and Gentlemen -- and all the rest of you perverts -- let me introduce Anonymous of 7/28 9:09 Am, AKA Kerry, my long-suffering wife (unless it's Kellie, my girlfriend, but I'm 99% sure that it's Kerry), who only wanted to get to the damned fridge. And for Holly to not bark like a dog at the pillows so she could get some damned SLEEP.<br /><br />Holly -- Clearly This Was A Gang Rape And The Poor Thing Just Enjoyed It.<br /><br />Bigshtime.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-84948077006924990712010-07-28T09:14:32.363-04:002010-07-28T09:14:32.363-04:00I love how the Kebab Controversy is creating a rou...I love how the Kebab Controversy is creating a roughly equal amount of discussion to the Clearly This Was A Gang Rape And The Poor Thing Just Doesn't Know It Controversy.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-56159589546941095272010-07-28T09:09:12.841-04:002010-07-28T09:09:12.841-04:00There were many meat kabobs left. I brought them ...There were many meat kabobs left. I brought them into the kitchen to put them in the fridge so they wouldn't be forgotten and left out. They had to remain on the table because I couldn't get to the damn fridge because of the orgy in the kitchen. I sighed and went back outside. I then announced to the few folks around the fire; 'there's porn in the kitchen if anyone is interested'.<br />What made me giggle is that someone at the fire responded with; 'corn? oh, cool.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-64084849440969185292010-07-28T08:10:00.951-04:002010-07-28T08:10:00.951-04:00Holly, you beat me to it --
JackHolly, you beat me to it --<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-15603082055773699792010-07-28T08:09:25.361-04:002010-07-28T08:09:25.361-04:00The funny part was the dichotomy, the juxtapositio...The funny part was the dichotomy, the juxtaposition of the traditional image one might have in one's mind of a feminist (and a 'big-time' one at that) standing tall and proudly, clearly stating her views, vs. what we saw -- a somewhat befuddled, naked person, creeping about the floor and having trouble with all those pesky consonants, and not standing tall or clearly stating her views. The other dichotomy was what an outsider might have seen -- a bunch of guys who had just physically abused a girl, standing around laughing at the helpless, naked girl slurring on the floor -- vs. the reality, a bunch of guys, all of whom are strongly pro-equality and a couple of whom are friends of the girl's, gently amused at her drunken slurring.<br /><br />Humor generally relies on surprise and/or a major contradiction in appearances and/or expectations. Does that make more sense now?<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-9796464324444393322010-07-28T03:53:45.757-04:002010-07-28T03:53:45.757-04:00Jack said: "The 'bigshtime feminisht'...Jack said: "The 'bigshtime feminisht' thing was wonderfully funny. The great thing was that all the guys within pissing distance of you had abused and/or fucked you already, were amused at your slurring/crawling declaration, and were all pretty ardent supporters of feminism (Kaija's version of it). Dichotomies can be fun."<br /><br />Anyone else catch this?<br /><br />Why was it amusing? If you're not slut shaming, and don't see a contradiction with a female picking her partners to do as she pleases - how was it "wonderfully funny"?<br /><br />Something isn't right about this story, but I suspect it's best suited for discussing 10 years from now during therapy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-63109580870795127492010-07-27T20:27:56.225-04:002010-07-27T20:27:56.225-04:00Nope. Steak kebabs. Many of them. Kerry and I a...Nope. Steak kebabs. Many of them. Kerry and I ate them Sunday afternoon and laughed at all your collective misfortune.<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-35114325757412948742010-07-27T16:02:14.668-04:002010-07-27T16:02:14.668-04:00I know, right? I didn't see any. Well, excep...I know, right? I didn't see any. Well, except the shrimp ones that I'm allergic to, and the vegetable ones that are, you know, <i>vegetables</i>.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83609335065054874302010-07-27T15:58:36.024-04:002010-07-27T15:58:36.024-04:00There were still kebabs? Damn!There were still kebabs? Damn!Drewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-5352069019849479832010-07-27T07:46:09.480-04:002010-07-27T07:46:09.480-04:00One last note: there were still several skewers of...One last note: there were still several skewers of kebabs left at the end of the night.<br /><br />Sorry. :)<br /><br />JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-85468035047724979442010-07-26T17:22:35.608-04:002010-07-26T17:22:35.608-04:00"It wasn't EXACTLY an orgy -- no more tha..."It wasn't EXACTLY an orgy -- no more than 3-4 people were ever connected in a sexual manner."<br /><br />oh god. :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-81957611133242314962010-07-26T16:07:06.993-04:002010-07-26T16:07:06.993-04:00These people sound dangerous. They should be repo...These people sound dangerous. They should be reported to the authorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-55803460598202750972010-07-26T14:17:44.273-04:002010-07-26T14:17:44.273-04:00People with consent concerns - Things were actuall...People with consent concerns - Things were actually a lot more under control than I've made them sound in this post--I wrote skewed more towards the crazy shenanigans than to the sane underpinnings. I might write more later because now I'm too sleep-deprived to think, but in short: this wasn't some spontaneous wild loss of control that I happened to enjoy because I'm crazy, this was just a bunch of wacky pervert friends doing their wacky pervert things. And following the usual wacky pervert rules in doing so.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-90156599842615213482010-07-26T14:14:06.823-04:002010-07-26T14:14:06.823-04:00Ah, the situation is a lot more comprehensible, kn...Ah, the situation is a lot more comprehensible, knowing that people were mostly well-acquainted.Marissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598310548059926496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-49076108506574043622010-07-26T13:10:21.704-04:002010-07-26T13:10:21.704-04:00perversecowgirl has summed it up pretty well -- &#...perversecowgirl has summed it up pretty well -- 'certain things are degrading, but only if done to someone against his or her will.'<br /><br />While this wasn't billed as a play party, it was made clear in the invites that play was okay and that anyone was welcome to grab a bed, couch, beanbag, toilet (we're looking at you, Tommy) and feel free to engage in swing and/or kink activities -- and this particular crowd was almost entirely folks intimately familiar with each other. So folks weren't screened exactly, because almost everyone (Holly and the Brace O' Mundanes aside) hang out together a lot already.<br /><br />It wasn't EXACTLY an orgy -- no more than 3-4 people were ever connected in a sexual manner. And it wasn't EXACTLY a play party -- the hatchets and Rockers just floated out, like they seem to do now and then (okay, often) when this crowd gets together. The rules were loose because it was a loose crowd. Holly seemed to fit in well enough, although perhaps a little more discussion of expectations might've helped (on both sides).<br /><br />-- The Nihilist Suburban Shitheads (we're gonna start a band!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-60243116591698072592010-07-26T12:51:33.327-04:002010-07-26T12:51:33.327-04:00I know what you mean about fluidity. The wife &...I know what you mean about fluidity. The wife & I used to go to swing clubs. It's interesting how people come & go (yes, pun intended).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-62252133675067221702010-07-26T12:33:11.171-04:002010-07-26T12:33:11.171-04:00Mousieoo: I was talking about the evils of (seriou...Mousieoo: I <i>was</i> talking about the evils of (serious) slut-shaming...I got hung up on Holly saying that her evening was degrading "...Only if you think that a guy who's had three pussies on his cock is somehow more dignified than a girl who's had three cocks up her pussy" and then your reply that looked a lot like "saying a woman is a slut but a man is a stud is no different from saying cotton is lighter-coloured than charcoal" which...ew.<br /><br />Now that I have a clearer head, I remember the <i>other</i> exploits Holly related (cutting, flogging, etc.), and I've read your comment more carefully, and it seems like we're on the same page: we agree that certain things are degrading, but only if done to someone against his or her will.<br /><br />re: the commenters who worry about consent issues: my understanding is that the hosts of "play parties" usually screen their guests carefully in order to weed out the assholes, so it's a fairly safe environment. And while an ahead-of-time discussion of rules and limits might be a good idea, it's not necessarily horrible and scary not to have one. <br /><br />You know how sometimes a girl might have a nice second or third date with a guy who is good and intuitive and respectful, and they'll get a little tipsy over dinner and then she'll bring him home and they'll have sex for the first time? She doesn't sit the boy down for an elaborate discussion of what she will and will not do because her gut tells her he's "safe" and if he does something she doesn't like, she can go "Don't do that, I don't like it" and he'll stop. A play party hosted by someone you know and trust strikes me as similar, except instead of one tipsy-but-respectful boy it's a bunch of them and instead of vanilla sex it's kinky sex. <br /><br />Mind you I don't do the orgy thing so I'm just guessing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83715216252929167172010-07-26T10:22:14.941-04:002010-07-26T10:22:14.941-04:00Lord Snuffleupagus - Nothing at all makes me think...Lord Snuffleupagus - Nothing at all makes me think it was other than play. perversecowgirl seemed to be talking about the evils of serious slut-shaming, which is why I mentioned "bad otherwise".Mousie00noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-69918727329916829442010-07-26T09:56:47.920-04:002010-07-26T09:56:47.920-04:00"Slut-shaming was an assumption built in to t..."Slut-shaming was an assumption built in to this play, and I presume it wouldn't have been as much fun for anyone without it. Like flogging, it's fine in play and bad otherwise."<br /><br />@ Mousieoo:<br /><br />I want to make it clear that I ask this question without any sarcasm implied, just honest curiosity: What, if anything, in Holly's post would make you feel that the activity mentioned (the slut-shaming, 'WHORE' writing part) was anything OTHER than play?Lord Snuffleupagushttp://www.whoreplay.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-80858519689414436412010-07-26T08:41:20.949-04:002010-07-26T08:41:20.949-04:00perversecowgirl - Absolutely get rid of the colors...perversecowgirl - Absolutely get rid of the colors metaphor; it was intended only to illustrate something not making sense.<br /><br />In terms of degradation, I was thinking more about the flogging, rather than the sex. Unlike flogging, sex is or should be normally considered symmetrical. But not in this instance:<br /><br /><i>Only if you think that a guy who's had three pussies on his cock is somehow more dignified than a girl who's had three cocks up her pussy.</i> I would generally say neither had any dignity advantage. But when one of those two people has "WHORE" written on them and the other doesn't, there is clearly an intent for an asymmetry in dignity; in this case play degradation. Slut-shaming was an assumption built in to this play, and I presume it wouldn't have been as much fun for anyone without it. Like flogging, it's fine in play and bad otherwise.Mousie00noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-13666678555393838492010-07-26T07:28:55.757-04:002010-07-26T07:28:55.757-04:00"...all pretty ardent supporters of feminism
..."...all pretty ardent supporters of feminism<br />Oh, I know. It really was the sex-positive safe space you all created that made me comfortable expressing myself sexually, or some bullshit like that."<br /><br />This, exactly. Sex-positive safe spaces with people who are able to play well with others--in all senses of that statement--mean more fun for everyone once you get rid of all the stupid traditional/regressive/limiting roles and rules that tell people what they can and can't do or should and shouldn't be ashamed of/degraded by/etc. You don't have to trick someone into having sex with you if they are enthusiastically saying "yes, please!" Of course, it *does* take some communication/negotiation skills but I think people are smart enough to work that out if they really try. Sounds like Holly and her friends were fully aware of what they were doing and her after-party glow says that she enjoyed it...I trust her at her word.Kaijanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-65543562662345091702010-07-26T05:11:41.959-04:002010-07-26T05:11:41.959-04:00There's some interesting questions about conse...There's some interesting questions about consent, safe words, public party vs. private play expectations and related stuff in the most recent (and other comments) here. What do you think, Holly? Any thoughts, or is this a big enough topic to warrant its own post?Lord Snuffleupagushttp://www.consentcounts.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-69837937994254265962010-07-26T01:55:27.054-04:002010-07-26T01:55:27.054-04:00The consent issue here sent up a red flag too.
Not...The consent issue here sent up a red flag too.<br />Not because I am actually questioning if she consented, she clearly did...but because it's a group situation, and there's always an asshole in every crowd...and mumbling about what a Feminist you are doesn't change that. <br /><br />This reads more like a mean group of kids abusing someone in some nihilist suburban shithead kind of way which at worst, they should have outgrown in High School. Only here they had the ability to physically do adult things that smack of ridicule to a human being. That you enjoyed it doesn't exactly excuse the context, which is a public party, that wasn't intended for public sex scenes. That in itself strikes me as a violation. Would this have happened if you were sober? Were your limits discussed? Was there a safe word, and was there someone watching you at ALL times who could have stopped the situation if you wanted it to stop? <br /><br />Obviously you don't view this experience negatively, and you don't want to feel bad about something you did and enjoyed... buy as an outsider reading this, you might want to consider some of the issues I'm raising. Your Feminism doesn't provide you safety, or stop people from breaching your trust, or keep you safe like an invisible forcefield.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-76771738811198029032010-07-25T23:59:56.911-04:002010-07-25T23:59:56.911-04:00Is charcoal darker than raw cotton? Only if your v...<i>Is charcoal darker than raw cotton? Only if your view of what's darker is hopelessly asymmetrical.</i><br /><br />I...don't even know what that means. There's no double standard in thinking a dark-coloured thing is darker than a light-coloured thing. There <i>is</i> a double-standard in thinking a guy having sex is a stud while the woman who participated in that exact same act is a slut. <br /><br />Presumably, we perceive cotton as lighter than charcoal because we all hold an idea of <i>neutral gray</i> in our heads against which we compare everything else. If something is lighter than our idea of neutral gray, we might call it "light" and if it's darker than our idea of neutral gray we call it "dark". There's no asymmetry there.<br /><br />Slut-shaming is more like declaring male values to be neutral gray (and declaring gray the BEST COLOUR EVER!!!) so that by contrast everything women do is too-this or too-that. Although really I'd rather get rid of this "colours" metaphor altogether because I don't think it really works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com