tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post6641187895870987590..comments2024-03-22T05:55:48.117-04:00Comments on The Pervocracy: Benny is in a relationship!Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-50379679542875588832012-07-16T20:22:28.728-04:002012-07-16T20:22:28.728-04:00Wow, I'm reading these comments two years late...Wow, I'm reading these comments two years later in 2012, and Eurosabra is hella creepy. His logic sounds far too much like my abusive ex's logic for keeping me 100% separate from his exes, despite the fact that he was still close friends with both of them. Long story short, my ex was a lying, manipulative, emotionally sadistic, violence-threatening, narcissistic asshat who cheated on me with several different women, including both exes AND his "best (girl) friend." And he had ZERO care or conscience about the hurt he was inflicting. When busted, he just coolly piled on more lies and changed tactics, twisting and turning to find what might work. *shudder* I tried sending a letter to his next target (because I came to realize that's what us women are in his mind) to warn her, but she blew it off as just so much "unnecessary drama." Anyway, wanted to chime in and express my disgust with Eurosabra's comments here.<br /><br />As for what to do in your situation, it's obviously moot by now, but I don't think these are black or white questions. I hope that you did reach out to Benny to reassert that what he did was traumatic for you, and that he needs to be careful not to do something like that again - but I totally respect it if you didn't do this because it didn't feel right for whatever reason. As for the new lady, that's really tough. I very much understand wanting to warn someone, but she's highly unlikely to believe a stranger. Perhaps if he had been a physically abusive repeat offender ex, that would be egregious enough to get past her rose-colored new-relationship glasses, but sadly, I suspect even that wouldn't get through for most women.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-75694910835659748722010-05-06T12:47:09.283-04:002010-05-06T12:47:09.283-04:00Well, as Ostropoler shows, there really isn't ...Well, as Ostropoler shows, there really isn't any exoneration once accused, so I'll stop belaboring the point re: my innocence. I really don't have anyone on a leash (hard when both I & current partner are semi-disabled) and it's more just a case of "I was That Guy and I sympathize with Benny should he get a poison-pen letter to his GF however much he needs to be called on his shit and in the past I took measures to prevent that kind of letter." YMMV, as I said, my soul is kind of cramped.Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-50556615825670580782010-05-06T11:24:02.945-04:002010-05-06T11:24:02.945-04:00I don't ban people. But you're coming off...I don't ban people. But you're coming off <i>super</i> creepy here, you should know that, and it's making me and other people worry about the state of your current relationship. It's frustrating because only you (and your partner) can really know what's going on there, but you're giving off very unsettling vibes about it.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-32932730567208068992010-05-06T11:15:51.989-04:002010-05-06T11:15:51.989-04:00"It puts the lotion..." Oh, wait, I get ..."It puts the lotion..." Oh, wait, I get as flip as you I get banned. I'm cranky, I have a past as That Guy, a few past partners who wanted me to read silent implicit consent until I introduced them to the concept of the safeword, and neighbors who once phoned the cops. Obviously, I'm the devil.Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-60530572207329069502010-05-06T09:33:37.831-04:002010-05-06T09:33:37.831-04:00I did enough mild boundary-pushing that I was &quo...<i>I did enough mild boundary-pushing that I was "That Guy" and constantly subjected to email drama aimed at disrupting whatever relationship I was in.</i><br /><br />I love how warnings about your admitted propensity for abuse is "drama aimed at disrupting your relationships." Sort of how putting car thieves in prison is government action aimed at disrupting their source of revenue.Hershele Ostropolerhttp://deweydecimate.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83706995890054256962010-05-06T02:14:35.050-04:002010-05-06T02:14:35.050-04:00Jesus fucking Christ? Do you have girls in your b...Jesus fucking Christ? Do you have girls in your basement? I feel bad even being flip here, I just don't know how else to respond.<br /><br />You've stated that you like being in control but also that you're in relationships where you <i>don't</i> explicitly discuss it, you just assume they like it.<br /><br />You've been fucking INVESTIGATED, presumably for your goddamn woman pit.<br /><br />You've "romantically touched someone on non-erogenous zones" in such a way that they wanted to warn other people about you.<br /><br />And now you fixed everything by controlling who your current partner is allowed to talk to.<br /><br />I used to think you were sort of funny, Eurosabra, sort of this bumbling loser who can't get a girl and makes all these goofy arguments about it. Now I'm fucking scared of you.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-34002788707964958272010-05-06T02:07:58.606-04:002010-05-06T02:07:58.606-04:00Again, it's simply that none of my exes can re...Again, it's simply that none of my exes can reach each other because the educational/geographical/when I was TAB/now I'm not/mono/poly parts of my life separated, in terms of who has stayed with me and who hasn't. I've also been treated to a full police investigation in another context because of what the neighbors thought they heard, and as Ostropoler notes (who should know abuse from his experience in Medzhybedzh, to put in a sly Jewish inside joke) the fact that I like control and have partners who agree to it makes me an abuser. After all, I've even been investigated.<br /><br />As I said in relation to Benny previously, my soul is rather cramped, and while I never did anything as abusive as he did, I did enough mild boundary-pushing that I was "That Guy" and constantly subjected to email drama aimed at disrupting whatever relationship I was in. So I learned (1) to respect boundaries regarding romantically touching someone you've just met on non-erogenous zones and (2) to make my relationship partners Internet unfind-able by the parties involved in (1). After the damage control aspects of Keeping People from Finding Out (People Think) You Are That Guy, the abbreviated method of Not Being That Guy has much to recommend it.Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-16305720169239508782010-05-04T17:46:05.646-04:002010-05-04T17:46:05.646-04:00HEY EUROSABRA - Do you have AIM or Skype or any ot...HEY EUROSABRA - Do you have AIM or Skype or any other real-time chat service? I'd like to talk to you one on one. I promise that I won't give you a hard time and that everything we say will be private, I'd just like to set my mind at ease here. Email pervocracy@gmail.com if you're willing.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-57646100849040491592010-05-04T17:40:12.970-04:002010-05-04T17:40:12.970-04:00There are elements of my relationships (past/prese...<i>There are elements of my relationships (past/present, hence plural) that are probably abusive, by strict feminist court-mandated course definition</i><br /><br />In other words, he's an abuser, but it's only feminists who think so, and their opinions don't count because feminists hate Manliness™.<br /><br />I see.Hershele Ostropolerhttp://deweydecimate.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-23333336039559590192010-05-04T12:36:30.411-04:002010-05-04T12:36:30.411-04:00Well, in the sense that there are no present-past ...Well, in the sense that there are no present-past links simply because I've moved around a lot and unfriended various people. But in general our lives are now supposed to be an open book so that we can prove (among other things) we are not abusers. Benny's lack of communication watertightness means that he's a thoughtless predator, not a careful one, with a "respectable woman" complex.Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-83643712937286808112010-05-04T12:19:48.981-04:002010-05-04T12:19:48.981-04:00Eurosabra - When you say isolation, do you mean is...Eurosabra - When you say isolation, do you mean isolation from your exes (not that weird), or isolation from <i>everyone</i> else in your life? Because not hanging out with your exes is normal, but making your girlfriend a secret from everyone is kinda fucked.<br /><br />And are you "isolating" her from your exes on purpose, or you just don't ever hang out with them? Specifically, are you isolating her from your exes because you're afraid of what they might say, and that you might not be able to convince her otherwise?<br /><br />And deleting someone's email or making them delete it unread is really, <i>really</i> fucked. "But the email is all lies" doesn't justify it, and talking about the "masculine role" scares the HOLY LIVING FUCK out of me. If it's lies, certainly tell her so and explain the concept, but prior restraint isn't the masculine role, it suggests that you have something to hide.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-38128584103415911212010-05-04T12:10:38.075-04:002010-05-04T12:10:38.075-04:00There are elements of my relationships (past/prese...There are elements of my relationships (past/present, hence plural) that are probably abusive, by strict feminist court-mandated course definition, in the sense of "isolation of partner." My current GF has never met any of my exes, and I have unfriended the more drama-inclined exes, as well as not displaying my relationship status. Of course, I have never, ever engaged in even mildly abusive behavior. Benny left links in place which will lead to his having to explain his behavior if you message his current GF, so actually his best bet is to really get help with his behavior. As in counseling before he becomes a sex offender. The tickling/holding down/unwanted penetration thing indicates that he gets off on unwanted-by-his-partner pain and harm, the ticking especially. "Why Are You Hitting Yourself?" comes to mind.Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-88291756602174915442010-05-04T11:35:07.652-04:002010-05-04T11:35:07.652-04:00HOLY FUCK EUROSABRA YOU WOULD DELETE YOUR GIRLFRIE...HOLY FUCK EUROSABRA YOU WOULD DELETE YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S FUCKING EMAIL WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU.<br /><br />Did I read that wrong? Were you trying to say something else other than "if someone tried to warn my girlfriend I was an abuser, I'd delete it from her inbox before she read it"? Please, tell me that's not what I read.Cliff Pervocracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-5904921451608792842010-05-04T11:28:30.776-04:002010-05-04T11:28:30.776-04:00I think you have a good chance of educating him (n...I think you have a good chance of educating him (not that it's your job) because his problem is that he tried to make something work technique-wise no matter what, including past unwanted limits of pain and blood, not that he routinely treats people as things. However, he needs Kink 101. <br /><br />That being said, if an ex messaged my GF with something similar and I was unable to convince her to delete the message unread or had not already deleted it from my GF's account myself I would regard myself as having insufficient influence over the relationship to really play the appropriate masculine role. I don't know any women would sustain a relationship with a man who confessed to boundary-pushing in this context, "Yeah, I hurt someone once because I was a self-centered asshole about one technique I had to make work and now I'm extra-careful about boundaries." Men Should Just Know(tm.)Eurosabranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-30176635528039832892010-05-03T15:42:47.667-04:002010-05-03T15:42:47.667-04:00This is a really tricky situation. I can sort of r...This is a really tricky situation. I can sort of relate. I know my abusive ex is with someone and has been for some time. If he's going to abuse her it's probably already started, but part of me wants to contact her somehow and warn her or ask if she's okay or at least let her know that if she's being hurt she's definitely not alone and it's not her fault.<br /><br />But if their relationship is like ours was she'll likely tell him about the email, he'll say I'm a psycho ex, and then I'll be back on his radar with a vengeance. I can't say that it's not worth it, but it would probably do more net harm than good.<br /><br />Of course, Benny might actually have enough human decency to listen to you if you remind him that he crossed a line (and I think a pretty big one). Hopefully he learned something when you got rid of him, but in my experience the ones who would learn from that scenario are usually the ones who would never, ever create it.<br /><br />Good luck with whatever you decide to do.quizzical pussyhttp://quizzicalpussy.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-85119996526657613702010-05-03T11:20:43.945-04:002010-05-03T11:20:43.945-04:00I think a lot of people have already offered far b...I think a lot of people have already offered far better advice than I have.<br /><br />I just wanted to say that that's a cruddy situation to be in. :( I totally understand your feelings of "oh, I hate when I see people NOT act when they should! But then I don't do it!" I think a lot of people end up in that situation. It's totally understandable.<br /><br />Good luck with figuring out what you want to do and acting on it. And remember, if he acts a jerk, you have a swarm of loyal readers who will leap forward to defend you ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-16070361214060720292010-05-03T10:00:48.797-04:002010-05-03T10:00:48.797-04:00I suspect you've already made up your mind, bu...I suspect you've already made up your mind, but I love the metaphorical sound of my own voice--er, I mean, I wanted to express my thoughts:<br /><br />The best likely outcome of A is what mabdreeams said: that she'll tell him and then forget about it, making it functionally equivalent to option B plus he'll be mad that you wwent to her (particularly if he doesn't realize he crossed the line); it's also possible that she'll pointedly ignore warning signs because then (in her mind) you've "won." <br /><br />B might be more effective for her safety if you have some sort of enforcement mechanism or at least an information channel; I gather he made a point of minimizing the number of your mutual acquaintences in Seattle, but would you know if he were to mistreat her? And what could you do if you found out he was? And how much of your life do you want to devote to him at this point anyway (note that "a lot, if it keeps him from hurting someone else" is a valid answer)? That said, on the off-chance that he didn't know he did anything wong, telling him, and being clear about it, might help him avoid doing wrong in the future. If he doesn't want to not do wrong there's not a whole lot you can do about that.<br /><br />* * *<br /><br />If I got something from an ex of my girlfriend along the lines of Marissa's suggestion, I would think "jealous and passive-aggressive"--and the more calm and reasoned and balanced the message, the more passive-aggressive it would look. On the other hand, passive-aggressive runs in Mama Ostropoler's family, so that's how I expect everyone to act all the time anyway.<br /><br />Web:<br /><i>I think if it were me, I would contact him but not mention her at all. Say that "this has been bugging me for awhile and I really need to get it off my chest." If done in a reasonable way, it might actually succeed in raising his consciousness, which presumably is the outcome you want.</i><br />I agree with this; it's probably most effective if you let his Facebook-official relationship stay as subtext.Hershele Ostropolerhttp://deweydecimate.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-59326364503714973572010-05-02T15:49:16.221-04:002010-05-02T15:49:16.221-04:00Defriend him first of all. If you feel he violated...Defriend him first of all. If you feel he violated you, why remain in contact? After that, it's probably best to mind your own business, unless she's someone you have a personal relationship with.<br /><br />If someone had reached out to you with a similar message back when you were enjoying your rough sex experiences with this guy, you probably wouldn't have taken it seriously, instead she was a scorned ex who just didn't share your fantasies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-4819030357868586672010-05-02T14:19:16.937-04:002010-05-02T14:19:16.937-04:00Web,
I don't know how badly it could really b...Web,<br /><br />I don't know how badly it could really backfire, though. She's across the country now - it's not like he'll show up at her apartment to accost her or anything. Not without spending a bunch of money on transportation first.<br /><br />He could potentially internet-stalk her or call her, but she could block him on Facebook and change her number. IF he gets that stupid about it.mangoesandlimesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-28271774404919723282010-05-02T13:56:48.548-04:002010-05-02T13:56:48.548-04:00"Whatever you decide to do--talk to Benny, ta..."Whatever you decide to do--talk to Benny, talk to Benny's gal, talk to nobody, whatever--whatever Benny does next is Benny's responsibility and fault alone. If you don't tell him and he hurts somebody else, that's because he's an abuser, not because you didn't make him stop."<br /><br />Excellent point.<br /><br />"she may well think you're a crazy stalker, but (and I'm assuming you don't actually know this girl here) why does that matter? Worst case scenario, she thinks you're a psycho ex and ignores you."<br /><br />Actually, that's not the worst case scenario. These things tend to escalate. You obviously haven't watched enough bad court t.v. shows. ;-) It could totally backfire on Holly.webhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02111147106670737578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-45377220470140915132010-05-02T13:44:37.606-04:002010-05-02T13:44:37.606-04:00What flightless said.
How he treated you wasn'...What flightless said.<br /><br />How he treated you wasn't 'kinda sorta abuse', it was abuse, full stop. You really can't take responsibility for everything he does in the future and she may well think you're a crazy stalker, but (and I'm assuming you don't actually know this girl here) <i>why does that matter?</i> Worst case scenario, she thinks you're a psycho ex and ignores you. Best case, she wises up and realizes what kind of douchebag she's allowing into her life.<br /><br />Definitely defriend him afterward, though.<br /><br />Just my $.02aebhelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79261111076108110552010-05-02T11:59:32.497-04:002010-05-02T11:59:32.497-04:00I would message her once, and defriend him, and en...I would message her once, and defriend him, and end it there. If she's having "is this not-OK or is it just me?" bells in her head, a bit more evidence on the It's Not OK side of things might help. And if not, then whatever, she got one more weird internet message from a stranger.<br /><br />flightlessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-52264676383360241932010-05-02T06:22:41.768-04:002010-05-02T06:22:41.768-04:00I don't know what the right thing is for you t...I don't know what the right thing is for you to do, here. I don't know whether your ambivalence about Benny's actions is because there are actual ambivalent things about what happened, or because it didn't feel like what you'd expect abuse to feel like, and gosh that's an awful lot of fuss to make when it's *really all right now* isn't? (You may have guessed that, from what you've told us about the events, I'm inclined to believe that latter--you said stop, he didn't stop, didn't take steps that showed he recognized what a problem this was, on some level it's just not any more complicated than that. But, I don't think I should be telling you what to think about your own life.) I think there's a really important thing that no one here has said yet. Whatever you decide to do--talk to Benny, talk to Benny's gal, talk to nobody, whatever--whatever Benny does next is Benny's responsibility and fault alone. If you don't tell him and he hurts somebody else, that's because he's an abuser, not because you didn't make him stop. Speaking from experience, it's really easy to look back afterwards and say "Oh, well of course I should've done x, how crap am I?" But it's not that simple. Nobody is responsible for a given rape but the rapist.Leigh Olivianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79836325528737756442010-05-02T06:10:41.508-04:002010-05-02T06:10:41.508-04:00I've tried to warn people about other people b...I've tried to warn people about other people before now (on Facebook, in fact) and it got me absolutely nowhere because she went straight to the person concerned and told them and then there was drama which stressed me out and she did not believe me anyway.<br /><br />That said, entirely up to you. But she doesn't know you or have any reason to trust your word over his. If you know any mutual friends, it might be worth a heads up that they keep an eye out for her, but that's the most I can think would be useful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-53353950660655644712010-05-02T02:13:35.983-04:002010-05-02T02:13:35.983-04:00B is the right thing, if you really think he didn&...B is the right thing, if you really think he didn't do it on purpose. I mean, he definitely screwed up, right? You say it was borderline, but it was the border between being dumb and being abusive, not the border of him actually having made the right choice. <br /><br />People can change. The odds of him becoming a different person right now because you sent him an email? Pretty low. He might send you a defensive or abusive reply. Maybe he'll have to hear it from two women before it sinks in. Maybe it'll be three, and at first he'll think he's changing his play style because some people are crazy and oversensitive, not because he was in the wrong.<br /><br />(But maybe you'll BE the second, or the third...)Evannoreply@blogger.com