tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post6893639703709751384..comments2024-03-22T05:55:48.117-04:00Comments on The Pervocracy: Just one ally.Cliff Pervocracyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02080142422250604406noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-12464403378222337182012-12-03T12:32:11.230-05:002012-12-03T12:32:11.230-05:00You don't have a strong friend network? You c...You don't have a strong friend network? You can make one. It takes time and effort, but it can be done. Also, by cutting off contact with your family, you may be the first person who sends a message to them saying, "what you are doing is not okay." <br /><br />Without my abusive ex-boyfriend, I never would've learned all the warning signs exhibited by people who are subtly mentally disturbed and likely to be emotionally abusive. I have no feelings towards him whatsoever. He didn't give me the gift of those skills any more than your mother gave you the gift of the skills you have. Both of us gave those skills to ourselves. Both of us learned them in the cruelest of classrooms, Real Life Experience. Take the gift of skill and understanding that you have given yourself, and start the first steps in walking away from the abuse.Kathrynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12415402494121216092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-77273032715711836262012-11-10T16:25:25.664-05:002012-11-10T16:25:25.664-05:00I just ran across your blog today and was reading ...I just ran across your blog today and was reading some of your old posts, and this one hit me quite hard.<br /><br />So, thank you. I don't think I've ever heard anybody talk honestly about these sorts of situations before, and they need talking about. Kudos for being awesome/thinky/brave enough to discuss it so rationally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-71931791801278796882012-08-28T21:04:47.537-04:002012-08-28T21:04:47.537-04:00ARC, I want to retroactively slap your parents rig...ARC, I want to retroactively slap your parents right upside their heads. Just...wanted to put that out there.Apollohttp://werefallingfast.proboards.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79379179399876670742012-08-26T11:42:11.067-04:002012-08-26T11:42:11.067-04:00Even though some details are different---this is v...Even though some details are different---this is very much like how I feel towards my dad. It's very frustrating not having a clear answer what to do, not being able to just cut that person out. I feel pity for him since I know he had even worse parents than he was, but sometimes FUBAR is still FUBAR no matter how understandable the reason. Ashmirehttp://www.etsy.com/shop/accentuateyourlooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-73949253245666736972012-08-20T23:25:49.990-04:002012-08-20T23:25:49.990-04:00The "nobody wants to be the first one" p...The "nobody wants to be the first one" phenomenon is well-known. I don't know the formal terminology for it, but I call it the Seed Crystal thing. Surprisingly often, once one person stands up and says/does something, a whole bunch of other people will fall in behind them -- they've all been thinking that this was wrong, but everyone was waiting for someone else to say/do something. It's like the way a supersaturated solution will explode into crystallization when you drop a seed crystal into it. <br /><br />Not everyone has the physical/emotional capacity to be the Seed Crystal, and there's nothing wrong with that. But for those who can, remembering that this phenomenon exists can be a real boost toward actually getting up on your hind legs and saying/doing something when you see something wrong happening. Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-44936984028914302052012-07-24T23:46:45.804-04:002012-07-24T23:46:45.804-04:00Over this past weekend, I saw an elderly woman in ...Over this past weekend, I saw an elderly woman in a wheelchair being physically abused by her caretaker.<br /><br />Because of this entry being on my mind, I was able to find someone else at the festival I was at to help me understand it. Together, we confronted the caretaker.<br /><br />Thank you, Cliff! :)<br /><br />--SneakLBThttp://baaingtree.deviantart.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-70534064287977489322012-07-15T10:18:39.458-04:002012-07-15T10:18:39.458-04:00I've had those "Did you see that?" m...I've had those "Did you see that?" moments.<br /><br />Excellent post.GirlWithTheCanehttp://www.girlwiththecane.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-59443147853092161592012-07-13T03:17:36.639-04:002012-07-13T03:17:36.639-04:00If I cut my mom out of my life, I have to cut my d...If I cut my mom out of my life, I have to cut my dad, my brother (who still lives at home while going to school), and pretty much every family function with the family I like out of my life. And I can't do that. Some people might be able to, but I just can't. I don't have a strong friend network. I don't have an adopted "family" to go to. My husband's family is at least as broken as mine (he doesn't speak to his abusive dad), most of his uncles are alcoholics and his mom is starting to have really frightening memory problems that scare the shit out of us. And that's the thing. My mom is bearable in small amounts. She's self-centered (histrionic, even) and has to make everything about herself. She also cannot seem to be happy or appreciate anything that anyone else does for her ever (I got her car washed and gassed it up as a surprise and she freaked out and said I would "ruin the paint job" by doing that for her). But she's still my mom. And most of her abusive behaviors do not seem to start manifesting until kids hit puberty. She's perfectly fine with babies and small children (and actually, is almost insanely protective against anyone doing anything "bad" to them- probably due to her sexual abuse history), but I pretty much know that I would never let my daughter be alone with her once she starts hitting puberty. I can't let my child be abused the same way that I was, especially if she is chubby or develops breasts in the 4th grade like I did. I can only hope that as I raise my own children, that I can help them understand that abusers are out there, and that what they say and do to control or break you down is not the truth- it's just the way that they try to trap people in their web. And while I feel sad that some people are so twisted that they feel they cannot get people to love them unless they break them first, I cannot in good conscience allow myself to let others be hurt if I can protect them.<br /><br />I'm not sure how I feel about my mom. I don't think I love her. I don't think that I will cry when she dies. But I don't think that she's this monster who only brought darkness to my life. Without her, I would never have learned the skills to sniff out gaslighting. I would never have learned how to become an expert manipulator with dangerous and abusive people. I would never have learned how to be the best narrative for my experience and stand up for it no matter what situation I was in or who was trying to pressure me to do things I did not want to do.<br /><br />But I'm not sure that these survival skills are really something that I ought to be "proud" of.Oni no Tenshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15152151716057715589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-47733482790133172342012-07-13T03:17:22.335-04:002012-07-13T03:17:22.335-04:00Abuse in my life has always been a tricky thing. ...Abuse in my life has always been a tricky thing. For one, I know for a fact that my mom was actually sexually abused- probably several times. And her mom was a violent alcoholic single mom who chased her and her brothers around with a knife when they got bad grades. She ran away when she was 15 and had to get a job working in fast food to pay the rent. She had bulimia for a long time (probably still had it to some extent while she was pregnant with me, which is probably why I have more health problems than my siblings who were born after she stopped doing it). And secondly, we all recently confirmed what we've suspected for years- she has tiny blood vessels in her head and may have been having small strokes for years- which often made her behaviors strange and terrifying and completely contrary.<br /><br />But.<br /><br />This does not excuse how she started teaching me that I was "fat" and "ugly" when I was still in elementary school- calling my developing breasts ugly and demanding I lose weight so they'd go away (they just got bigger, unfortunately). She'd simultaneously go into graphic detail about rape and what "bad men" do to little girls to my sister and I as though it was some kind of way to deter us from "getting into a situation where that could happen" (implying it would be OUR fault if it did happen). But then she'd go into heavily sensual stories about how all the boys liked her even in elementary school and junior high and I'd never find a man if I didn't stop acting so smart and crap.<br /><br />And this doesn't even begin to go into the amount of abuse she's heaped at my sister because my sister has a defiant personality and I'm more of a "ok, I'll play along with your bullshit" type of person. I remember watching a movie about an abusive family and according to the video, there's always the abusive person, the placater, the one who works hard to make everything "look normal" and diffuse the abuser, the one who Acts Out, and the one who Goofs off. My mom was the abuser, my dad was the placater, I worked hard to make everything as normal as possible (and unfortunately, this often meant manipulating and steering my mom around to thinking she had come up with ideas instead of me even though I hated doing it). My sister acted out. My brother just goofed off. I felt like I was living in a text book, but there was no way to get out. And it's not like she beat us bloody or anything. We had a roof over our heads, a pair of shoes, a few hand-me-downs from cousins, hell I got piano lessons. But I spent a long time basically trying to undo my mother's abusive behaviors, like convincing her not to send my sister to a mental institution for talking back to her.Oni no Tenshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15152151716057715589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-49385609427067642642012-07-12T22:11:26.043-04:002012-07-12T22:11:26.043-04:00Thank you for not just making this about how awful...Thank you for not just making this about how awful people are who don't do anything. Good explanations of psychology and possible fixes. I love the idea of 'checking' with someone. Because sometimes, speaking up to the authorities or calling out the person doing it isn't going to happen for many reasons. <br /><br />I think also, people are worried about being wrong. Because, not every situation that looks 'hinky' is. Sometimes the horsing around really is mutual and enjoyed by both parties. Sometimes the abuse report was filed by a bitter grandparent who wants more access to the kids. Sometimes the joke *was* just a joke.<br /> <br />One way to help make people feel more OK with speaking up would be not immediately flying off the handle when someone 'checks' your behaviour. If I'm consensually whipping my boyfriend, and someone sees the marks and worries and says something, I should address their concerns and explain if possible. Not do the crime-show thing of 'how dare you accuse me!'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-63523713300617256632012-07-11T00:18:26.618-04:002012-07-11T00:18:26.618-04:00A few years ago, I was sitting in a restaurant in ...A few years ago, I was sitting in a restaurant in the middle of the day and through the window I saw someone lying down in the middle of the sidewalk. I did nothing. Eventually someone did something and an ambulance and police came for him. He was very likely suffering from alcohol poisoning, and maybe I could have gotten him help sooner. After that, I resolved that when I saw someone who could be in trouble, or a situation that could be hazardous to others, I will do something, even if that's just calling the police. And I've been pretty good about keeping that resolution, though there's one situation I have discussed with another but not (yet) acted on.David Feuerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09876399378889159844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-4933947290649690612012-07-10T17:16:18.696-04:002012-07-10T17:16:18.696-04:00Write what you feel, dark or not. I needed to read...Write what you feel, dark or not. I needed to read this, as do a lot of people.<br /><br />Besides, light will come out of this darkness; sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that's what we're discussing here, no?nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15816663147302709794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-74853089357914900932012-07-09T15:10:33.040-04:002012-07-09T15:10:33.040-04:00Cliff, you can't be the only person on earth t...Cliff, you can't be the only person on earth too horribly broken to live like a regular person, because *I'm* that person!<br /><br /><br /><br />But seriously, none of us is that person, and I hope that hearing that other people feel the same way helps.Starskitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-50888778288160305432012-07-09T08:37:29.098-04:002012-07-09T08:37:29.098-04:00It's always interesting to see my favorite wri...It's always interesting to see my favorite writers apologizing for the subjects they write about. Appears to be some kind of universal impulse among those who have a heart for their audience, but also a strong internal drive to write about important, difficult subjects.<br /><br />Anyway, this is an amazing post and a good point. Thank you for writing.f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-89595833521097774762012-07-08T23:04:07.652-04:002012-07-08T23:04:07.652-04:00thanks for this post.thanks for this post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-79238849956736886312012-07-08T22:35:11.119-04:002012-07-08T22:35:11.119-04:00Oh, I love you for saying this. I hope I bear it ...Oh, I love you for saying this. I hope I bear it in mind forever.GemmaMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-62786384775609484302012-07-08T14:57:32.195-04:002012-07-08T14:57:32.195-04:00Thank you Cliff for posting this, it’s wonderful! ...Thank you Cliff for posting this, it’s wonderful! In abuse prevention awareness you hear so much about, “Be the one who speaks up.” but because of the psychological dynamics some of the posters above described it’s dam hard. You have given a really good solution to this problem. If public awareness adds, schools, ect… changed their focus to “talk to the person beside you” instead of “talk to the victim.” or “call the cops.” I think that a lot more people would feel able to get involved.<br /><br />On a personal level this principle has helped me. I grew up in an abusive home, we were a 6 person religious cult. I was miserable but because there was no physical abuse after we were really little (like almost too little to remember) and thanks to the crazymaking and gas lighting I couldn’t make the jump in my mind to say, “this is WRONG, I need to get out.” What got me to see how bad it was, was two people who chose to get close to me and then gently point out that things were messed up. It took me a little while but when I saw that it wasn’t just in my head, I got the hell out and I am thankful every day I did.<br /><br />I love your blog Cliff, keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-35708919745792366112012-07-08T12:04:29.922-04:002012-07-08T12:04:29.922-04:00Don't apologise for writing about dark stuff w...Don't apologise for writing about dark stuff when you write about it *so* well, that you help those of us reading it so much, just by introducing a new idea, and helping to reconfigure our internal thought processes.<br />I'm sorry I can't really say it more eloquently, but yeah - this, *so much*.Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01656390046187780127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-63544812691440728732012-07-08T07:13:11.191-04:002012-07-08T07:13:11.191-04:00More than one person said in the comments that Cli...More than one person said in the comments that Cliff's timing is impeccable. While that may be the case, it's much more likely that these kind of situations are just *really really* common.<br /><br />When I read about the bystander effect, it said in the article that knowing about it helps people act in these situations of diffuse responsibility. The bizarre thing is that I had read about it before, but this extra remark was what did it for me.Aeliasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-30535830349914564232012-07-07T00:37:57.756-04:002012-07-07T00:37:57.756-04:00What you're talking about here is called "...What you're talking about here is called "Social Proof". You need validation that there's an objective injustice occuring before whistleblowing because you don't want to risk being wrong. There was a experiment on this, the summary is as follows.<br /><br />"In Dr. Robert Cialdini's book Influence, he describes a classic experiment in which someone yells 'Rape!' for a subject's benefit while two people (psychological plants) ignore the cries for help and keep walking. The subject doesn't know whether to respond to the pleas or not, but when he sees the other two people act as if nothing is wrong, he decides that the cries for help are insignificant ignores them also." --Tony Robbins, Awaken the Giant Within<br /><br />The solution, of course, is to recognize the fact that it is better to be mistaken and temporarily inconvinience a suspect than it is to allow someone to be victimized.M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-89486887809541329942012-07-06T22:45:37.087-04:002012-07-06T22:45:37.087-04:00Same here. It's a coping mechanism, I think. Y...Same here. It's a coping mechanism, I think. You can only stand up with no allies for so long. When you're young, your brain is still trying to figure out how to act, so you try to fight for yourself for so long until you eventually give up. It happened to me in my teenage years--I stopped rocking the boat, or even responding when I got yelled at, and my parents approvingly told me that I was learning.ARCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-50992899964641951932012-07-06T22:31:22.949-04:002012-07-06T22:31:22.949-04:00A friend just shared this with me, after I stuck u...A friend just shared this with me, after I stuck up for someone in an extremely questionable situation tonight - and it made all the difference that that person was not alone. You make some great points, and now I'm going to keep reading your blog because sounds like it's right up my alley.Ericahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08809117877644024452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-21792657898679672312012-07-06T21:23:29.491-04:002012-07-06T21:23:29.491-04:00This is a really smart post. I love it when you wr...This is a really smart post. I love it when you write about how to communicate with people and fix problems, and the posts you've made lately about consent and speaking up have been extremely lucid and helpful. Please don't feel like you have to avoid writing about "dark" topics; some of your "darkest" posts have been the ones that have helped me think the most. Deep, deep thanks for being here and doing what you're doing. You're becoming one of my favourite thinkers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-46172673482966603302012-07-06T11:30:28.590-04:002012-07-06T11:30:28.590-04:00What you are describing is, unfortunately, a basic...What you are describing is, unfortunately, a basic of group psychology. When an event happens with multiple witnesses, they each look to the others to determine the correct course of action. Since everyone is looking, no one acts. This tends to be self-reinforcing until someone steps out and does something - anything. This is why the first thing you do, before beginning first aid, is to single someone out, point at them, and order them to call 911. If you just yell, "Someone call 911!" - no one will. You have to delegate someone to make sure it happens. <br /><br />A few days ago, I was standing in a shopping center when a woman drove up over the curb and hit a fence. Everyone stood for a moment or two and muttered, "I hope she's okay!" and "Is she hurt?" Since I saw what was happening - it was moving towards spectacle - I walked over and looked in the window. When the woman made eye contact, I held up my hand in an "okay" sign. She put down her window and said she was okay...and within half a minute, eight of the previous by-standers had come to check on her. She called her husband and I sat on the curb with her until he got there. The only thing hurt was her car and the fence...but it could have been much worse, and no one was going to step out on their own. <br /><br />Humans are herd animals. When we are scared, we cling to each other for better or worse. Fortunately, we also have a brain that is strong enough to assess the situation and choose to be different. It just isn't easy. <br /><br />I'm not patting myself on the back, just pointing out that you are discussing typical group behavior. The guy who jumps on the train tracks to help someone is a rarity, but only slightly rarer than the guy who stands up in a crowd and says, "This is wrong! I'm not going to tolerate it!"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045808383002997129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2770580070906411828.post-12390155764908161162012-07-06T11:20:36.544-04:002012-07-06T11:20:36.544-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Meredithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09594205150376979594noreply@blogger.com