Dear Pervocracy,
Holly's a little preoccupied right now. OK screw this, it's the Pervocracy so why mince words. Holly's sucking my dick for the 20th time this weekend(bless wireless keyboards. Bless 'em). We're awesome perverted geeks. So what the hell, let me toss off a couple of quick points here while I've got my hands free.
1) Ladies, whatever the magazines say, FUCK NO, USING TEETH DURING ORAL SEX IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Holy crap, I feel better just having said it. Holly, honey, you're good about this one. Seriously. It doesn't feel good. I don't know how somebody got it into their heads that that's a good technique, but I don't think a guy came up with that one. Imagine some guy using teeth on your va-jay. It's not a pleasant idea, right?
2) People that whine about how much their partners aren't willing to have sex with them need to change something. Whether it's their partner, their arrangements, or their whinging, something's got to give.
3) People who waste time on Pick-Up Artist bullshit rather than oh, say, improving themselves as people, physically, mentally, and emotionally, are losers. There's no exception to this. I'm a geek from New Jersey, folks, I love Bon Jovi, Star Wars, and comic books, and I still get laid pretty frequently. Y'know why? Not because I'm some superstar catch physically(I'm not bad, but I'm not Brad Pitt), not because I make a ton of money, not because I have some super-sekrit(tm) way of putting women down in such a way that they'll sleep with me. Because I'm willing to better myself. Yes, Eurosabra, just so that I'm fucking crystal clear here, I'm talking to you. Go work out, get a job, and pull your head out of your ass.
Now, if you folks'll excuse me, I'm gonna go make this pretty lady cry (and come!) before I have to hop a plane back to the East Coast.
-Tommy
I came across your blog here the other day...and I feel like I should say I think its pretty great and extremely amusing.
ReplyDeleteBut what I really thought I should mention is that, some guys do actually like teeth. I spent about three years seeing someone who liked it when i bit him while giving head... He wasn't into pain anywhere else and actually acted weirded out that I am, but thats off topic. Point is there is someone out there who enjoys teeth lol.
Fair enough, y'know; there's somebody out there who enjoys everything.
ReplyDeleteIt's more that when I see this in magazines passed off as advice, it's "oh, your guy will like this". Really, it should be more about communication. The advice ought to fall along the line of "talk to your partner and find out what they like" rather than "go for XYZ, because he'll like XYZ. Really. Teehee."
I have only one question.
ReplyDeleteHow the hell did you have the presence of mind to type up an entire, cogent post while Holly worked over the soldier?
Nerves of steel...
Dear Drew,
ReplyDeleteI was expecting a little more sympathy, or empathy, or what have you, since we probably have very similar life experiences, and many of the women I've dated have reported very similar life experiences to Holly's, canted more towards the vanilla. Mainly, I think I can deal without a talking-to on the subject of the self-pity, considering how a simple line like "Your pretty is your value" leads to such angst on this blog. Point duly noted, FWIW.
nash-It is by will alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Safu that thoughts acquire speed. Also, I'm just damn good sometimes.
ReplyDeleteEurosabra-Yeah, you expecting sympathy or empathy from me was the first mistake. I have sympathy for people who strive to handle their problems and overcome them, not those who whine about the cruel unfair state of the world and refuse to do a damn thing about it.
Once upon a time, sure I had an attitude that was similar enough to yours. But y'know what? I dropped the "the whole world's against me and nobody understands me" schtick when I was in high school. You say the point is "duly noted", but while I hope I'm wrong on this one, I don't think you're going to do a damn thing with what I've said except for file it away as another example of how much the world's out to get you.
Drew,
ReplyDeleteI think we are speaking in different sociolects, as well as socializing in different societies. You are making quite a few assumptions about me, as I am about you. I assure you that the Wet Spot would be an untoward "play" environment for me, as The Circle Bar on Main Street in Santa Monica would be for you. To say that the vanilla singles scene on the Westside of the Los Angeles metropolitan area is harsher, more unforgiving of social lapses, and more dog-eat-dog than a pervy play pen in the tree-hugging Pacific Northwest is not a leap of faith, nor, sadly, would most people be very happy in the bondage scene here, which (www.kinkyjews.com excepted) tends to skew towards people from the Professional Dominance and Adult Film industries, of the type that Bitchy Jones critiques on her blog. "Undress to impress" is the norm here, and I assure you that LOTS of people find nooks of real-life-acceptance in the BDSM community far from places like the Bondage Ball. But those are not the mainstream of either trendy vanilla society or BDSM here. (In fact, one of the most common reasons for 'invite only' on the South Coast, I suspect, is to protect women from grody body-fascist male tops.)
So while I agree with you that the important element is playing the hand you're dealt, PUA is a reasonable response to a local subculture, and grew up in symbiosis with it.
Drew! I'm impressed! Most men really can't handle a good blow job and anything else.. Nice!
ReplyDeleteI personally judge how well I'm doing at giving one by how 'distracted' my man is. My all time favourite was the time dinner was boiling over, and it took him a few moments to get speach back - once he realised - so he could deal with it.. He still wasn't capable of full sentances, it was an awesome moment for me!
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ReplyDeleteCorrected for some missing words
ReplyDeleteEurosabra- I do love that you assume that I somehow wouldn't be able to hack it in a vanilla dating scene(as well as assuming that I'm not into the vanilla dating scene), or in one that's more body-conscious. I also find it telling that your response to a scene that clearly intimidates you is that, rather than trying to improve yourself or heaven forbid trying to find someplace that intimidates you less, you seek a magic bullet that will make all your problems go away. Sorry to say, kid, it doesn't work like that. Magic bullets don't exist outside of Oliver Stone movies.
I live in Boston/Cambridge, Massachusetts. While certainly not as celeb-heavy as Los Angeles, we've got a lot of very attractive people, thanks to the many universities and colleges around here. High standards abound in an environment where good-looking musicians and college grads are a dime a dozen. And yet, I do fine, due in no small part to the fact I'm willing to take a hard and honest look at myself, appraise my own faults honestly, and work to improve myself. Note, "improve myself", not "whinge and look for a magical way to make porn stars sleep with me." Those are different things.
Maja_dren-Thank you!
Eurosabra, Drew - All I'm gonna say is that one of you just spent the weekend getting blown and fucked and cuddled and shown around town by a girl, and the other didn't, so which one of y'all do ya think knows more about meeting women?
ReplyDeleteOh, and if a bar in LA is so snooty and dog-eat-dog that you have to resort to desperate mind games, find another bar. There are 6 million women in that city, they can't all be unobtainable bitches.
Eurosabra - I reread that and it did sound a little harsh. What I'm really trying to say is that you need to consider the vast number of men--many of them not young, beautiful, rich, or brilliant--who have satisfying relationships with women without resorting to PUA bullshit, and consider the possibility that maybe the problem is on your end. You know?
ReplyDeleteHolly,
ReplyDelete[Shrug]. I think we're talking past each other, to a certain extent, so I would say mainly that what bugs me is the idea that PU is incompatible with self-improvement. Indeed, a lot of the "techniques" are techniques of self-mastery. For the rest, you are dealing with totally separate subcultures than I, and you seem to be going after this strawman of pick-up. Everyone seems to have Not In My Town Syndrome, and while there is no magic bullet, I would say that Cambridge, Mass. and Seattle are not terribly indicative of the state of male-female relationships in modern urban America. (If my experience in Cambridge and Princeton is any guide.) It may very well be that your milieu skews towards the geeky and I might be happier there (once I can get a grip on some badly needed humility, I suppose.)
I also like the assumptions about my weekend, I suppose my chief complaint is that things should be EASIER, and therefore pick-up "works" for me--it's simply a matter of actively sorting for responsive potential partners, taking a sort of "play area" dialogue to the streets, but doing it fairly subtly and starting from even further back, since you are dealing with (a vast majority of) people who aren't interested in or out for play. And you have to respect that and tread ultra-lightly as a result. So properly-done pick-up nets you...a lot of friends, for starters.
See, here are the two problems that I have with your arguments, Eurosabra. One is that you continue to try to obfuscate things with meaningless phrases like "I think we're talking past each other" and "I think we are speaking in different sociolects", rather than just coming out with a defensible argument for anything. Which I guess is fair enough, because I think your position's about as defensible as an open field in a capture-the-flag game.
ReplyDeleteSecond problem I have with it is that no, it just doesn't work. Your "experience in Cambridge and Princeton" isn't any type of guide, because you don't seem to have any kind of handle on "the state of male-female relationships", and you've consistently shown yourself to be an arrogant whiner who can't take responsibility for himself, who expects the world to hand itself to him, and y'know, people don't like to be around that kind of person. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if you had a different experience.
As far as different subcultures go, hey man, we're all people. If you deal with someone as a person, rather than "oh, this girl's really hot and an actress, so I need to do XYZ", you're probably going to have much better luck with things.
Did I mention how much I enjoy being lectured at? Your anecdotes are evidence, mine are happenstance?
ReplyDeleteI can't necessarily proceed from stereotypes like "she's an actress, so I'd better do XYZ" (Imagine how bizarre that would get: "She's Brazilian, so I'd better offer to f*ck her in the @$$ right away, they like that...") but I can recognize patterns of behavior, like pulling away or leaning in, and act accordingly. While I have in the past done the full-bore hypnotic stuff where you just dump the desire for an experience into someone's brain by leading her step-by-step, that's hard work, complicated, and would imply a lack of respect for her agency, if it were at all effective. You can't lead someone where she has no desire, none, zilch, zip, nada, to go. There are techniques, sure, but they're neither intended to be cure-alls nor scattershot, and the cardinal rule is "You go first." Might I ask WHICH schools of pick-up you're discussing, as you seem to be fixated on the "inauthenticity" of it? I assure you that 90% of what I do is simple rapport-building and that I simply call it off at any signs of "resistance". This is not something you whomp women with to annihilate their will.
For the rest, I don't really appreciate the ad-homs.
Eurosabra - I think the thing that makes you creepy to me and offensive to Drew isn't even the specific things you do but the way you talk about it. You have this strange, detatched, game-playing way of describing human interaction. Everyone's aware of body language and everyone likes to build rapport with attractive guys/girls--but most people wouldn't describe these things as methods and techniques.
ReplyDeleteEven if your outward behavior is normal (which, frankly, I have trouble believing), the fact that you frame ordinary social interaction as a secret scheme is still freaky as hell.
Holly,
ReplyDeleteWell, as a depressed terror survivor with chronic illness, I had to both learn and relearn a lot of the social codes that most people find totally intuitive. So even when someone is totally interested in banging me just because I'm smart/funny/brilliant/moody/brooding/dark/tortured/artistic etc, I still have to think to myself, "Hmm, leaning in while smiling and flipping hair means WANTS TO BE TOUCHED given the context of a one-on-one male/female interaction." And sometimes I'm wrong and she was just being friendly, and sometimes I'm not interested "in that way" at all, and sometimes, indeed very rarely, I'm right and I have a special new friend.
It only gets really creepy if you take the "this THING won't do what I want, it must be BROKEN" approach and persist, and as a woman who experiences A LITTLE rejection, you have some inkling of the experience of a man who experiences CONSTANT rejection. But it doesn't hurt to think and observe systematically if you're relatively insensitive to communication that's taking place on a near-imperceptible level...in particular since positive responses are often much more subtle than negative...
Like I said, you're hung up on "authenticity" and we have the dilemma of those who want socially-awkward people to continue being "authentic" and unsuccessful instead of modifying their behavior. And if breath-control yoga for controlling panic attacks due to social anxiety isn't a "technique", then I don't know an adequate word in English to name it.
ReplyDeleteEurosabra-You're so gorram creepy that it's not even funny. Also, what terror attack, what chronic illness?
ReplyDelete"People who waste time on Pick-Up Artist bullshit rather than oh, say, improving themselves as people, physically, mentally, and emotionally, are losers." Spot on! Yay for sex-positive geeks from New Jersey!
ReplyDelete