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Monday, May 31, 2010

Guest Blogger: Bruno!

[I'm still pretty overextended with moving and work, so here's a guest post from Bruno to pick up the slack. -Holly]

Women don’t like sex. They feign interest only to attract men and put up with it only to keep them or to get pregnant. They’d rather eat chocolate; when Lesbian couples dive, it’s into bags of Doritos.

It's absurd to recount that myth beside Holly Pervocracy’s detailed accounts of her gleefully perverted exploits, but it took me a long time to overcome it and deeply impacted me in the interim. I suspect many men are similarly affected. If women won’t give sex, men have to take it from them. If they can be tricked into offering it, men can learn legerdemain. If nice girls say no, nice guys won’t ask.

My parents didn’t give me a healthy view of sexuality. They rarely even kissed where I might see them, and when they did it was always a sterile peck on the lips. That became my benchmark for normalcy. When I saw my babysitter and her husband on top of each other on their couch after school one day, I ran to tell their kids. (“So?” was their response, in a tone that implied I might get hit.)

My dad did leave copies of Playboy around where I could find them, but although I knew my dad and I wanted to see naked women there was nothing to convey what those women or my mom wanted.

My other early source for information about sex was my parents’ copy of The Joy of Sex. Theoretically, it could have given me a realistic view of sexuality and a broad knowledge of sex practices. There were at least two obstacles to that.

One was that the book wasn’t exactly aimed at a curious kid. The line-drawn hippies didn’t look like anyone I knew and much of the material came across as alien. I think I would have preferred learning about erections before being confronted with armpit fucking.

The second obstacle was that the book wasn’t kept in a bedroom. I found it in a water-damaged cardboard box in the furnace room among disintegrating mimeographs, abandoned Tupperware, and broken desk accessories, so my parents presumably found it as useless and weird as I did.

But of course I read it thoroughly, hands shaking in fear of being discovered and eyes straining in the amber light of a bare 20-watt bulb.

By high school I’d encountered other sources of information, but they didn’t help dispel the myth either. I got pretty good sex ed, but of course it focused on the dangers of sex, not on why anyone would accept the risk, which I guess should have been self-evident to a teenager. The “letters to the editor,” I found in dirtier men’s magazines were written from the man’s point of view and based on factual inconsistencies and anatomical improbabilities I already suspected they were fiction.

High school also featured a few conversations about sex with girls, who also did nothing to dispel the myth. One friend insisted that she’d be a virgin on her wedding day, but that she wanted her husband to have some experience. Sex was like farting –of interest only to crude stinky boys.

College probably should have done more to convince me that women actually like and pursue sex, but apparently I was difficult to persuade, possibly because “women don’t like sex” was easier to digest than “women don’t like me.” I now had access to Internet porn, which meant actual fucking, but actresses’ moans weren’t always distinguishable from agony. Besides, I was soaking up the political correctness of the environment, and knew that all sex was rape unless every act received explicit, enthusiastic consent, and that pornography was inherently degrading to women. Women disliked sex and needed to be insulated from it.

There’s always been an important exception to the myth for procreative sex. A female college friend who was no doubt being sincere in her flattery regularly told me that I’d “be a good dad.” I’d yet to get laid, or even more than a truth-or-dare kiss, and never seen a naked woman in person, and here was my fate: For being a good person, women would reward me with diapers, not orgasms.

Eventually, someone liked me enough to proposition me. She scared the crap out of me, though, so it took a better friend and a couple rounds of propositioning to get me to second base. Then my first girlfriend found me, and eventually asked me to make love to her.

She never asked again, and after that relationship ended my second sex partner was completely passive. Eventually I felt rejected by and resentful toward both, and so the myth lived on.

Years later, I’ve had a few more experiences and may have finally integrated the truth into my mindset. Some of the credit goes to women like Holly who are willing to share their experiences. A lot of it is courtesy female friends who are honest about what they want, whether or not they seek it from me. Mostly, though, it’s about maturing beyond thinking of myself as aberrant.

But the myth still pops up. I ran into an immigrant friend while traveling to a bar to meet with mutual friends, and she complained about the amount of attention she gets from men. What a burden, to be desirable! My FWT (friend with tension) essentially propositioned me to be a sperm donor, albeit leaving the delivery mechanism ambiguous.

Most significantly, it’s exposed in the idea that women can get sex whenever they want, compared with the frustrated, lonely men. The 15th century Latin translates as “man proposes, God disposes,” but an equally popular philosophy is “man disposes, woman disposes.” Women are in control, and if they’ll condescend to fucking they’ll have limitless opportunities because not enough women want sex to satisfy the insatiable appetites of men.

Of course, women might have to settle for someone other than the hottie de jour. My FWT told me that for her birthday she wanted to “treat [herself] to some nookie,” and she got it. It was with a guy who’s older, fatter, balder, and dimmer than she’d presumably prefer, but yes, he’ll give her whatever she wants.

And what she wants includes orgasms.

20 comments:

  1. Quote: “Women are in control, and if they’ll condescend to fucking they’ll have limitless opportunities because not enough women want sex to satisfy the insatiable appetites of men."

    I'm pretty sure you wrote this to tear it down, but there IS a double standard out there. To wit: men are often maligned and-or perceived as predatory (and I've read accounts of transmen that support this claim), so the advances of men, even if they are polite, can be viewed in a negative light, but men are also often socially expected to be the initiator. Of course, women face a similar problem: advances by women can be labeled as "slutty," but this is a slightly different problem.

    Ignoring, for the moment, the specter of male privilege, but also ignoring the idea that women command the adoration of men and can get sex any time they want: both genders face socially constructed barriers between them and the prize, namely: sex and love.

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  2. "I ran into an immigrant friend while traveling to a bar to meet with mutual friends, and she complained about the amount of attention she gets from men. What a burden, to be desirable!"

    Really?

    --Andy

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  3. That is: did you really just say that?

    --Andy again

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  4. That is: did you really just say that?

    Looks like he did. And from his perspective, it really is rather fantastic.

    Just because desirability really can be burden doesn't exactly invalidate the perspective of those who would kill to have similar problems.

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  5. It's all a problem of whom you're desirable to. Not many people just want a man, any man, so when Joe Creepyleer and his friend Bob Wartygroper find you desirable, then yeah, it is a burden. And very few men, even when they claim otherwise, really want to be desired by Jane Smellystalker either.

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  6. I stripped down her comments for the purposes of this post. She wasn't complaining about Assbreath Romanhands, but about men in general trying to talk to her at clubs. A pretty, slim, fashionable woman visits a meat market and complains that her exercise, wardrobe, and makeup are having their intended effect -- how should I interpret that?

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  7. In conclusion, smash the patriarchy!

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  8. Bruno: it may sound weird to you, but sometimes women go to clubs just to dance. The secondary mission is usually to feel sexy, but this can be accomplished by wearing something that makes us feel hot and slinking around to sexy music.

    I know that I've been out places before, in deep conversation with my friends and pretty much giving off a "leave me alone" vibe, and had guys butt in trying to talk to me. It's rude. Even if I think the guy is hot, it's rude. Bathing and wearing a nice outfit isn't a sign that I want to be picked up, it's a sign that I'm not homeless.

    That's what I hate about some guys: they think women are being attractive at them.

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  9. A pretty, slim, fashionable woman visits a meat market and complains that her exercise, wardrobe, and makeup are having their intended effect -- how should I interpret that?

    Interpret that as you being kind of a pig for assuming women only want to be attractive, healthy, or fashionable to get male attention. :)

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  10. A pretty, slim, fashionable woman visits a meat market and complains that her exercise, wardrobe, and makeup are having their intended effect -- how should I interpret that?

    Having defended your perspective- I'd have roughly the same visceral "oh, you poor thing" reaction to female friends complaining about the same thing- response.

    Wanting to feel attractive and sexy isn't exactly the same thing as being thrilled about a broadcast and indiscriminate response. I don't and never got attention like some of my friends did, but at least I had the assurance that not only was no one ever interrupting anything I was happily doing alone, anyone who DID want to talk to me wanted to talk to me because they wanted to talk to me- and not because I represented a high-value target on someone's scorecard based on the size of my breasts.

    There's feeling attractive, and feeling like an especially nicely marbled side of beef. One is really nice, the other's really not.

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  11. Interpret that as you being kind of a pig for assuming women only want to be attractive, healthy, or fashionable to get male attention. :)
    Oink.

    "Only" may be the focus of this comment, but even so what meaning does "attractive" have (as applied to a person) that overlaps not at all with "sexually appealing"? ("Healthy" is a closer call; "fashionable" not so much.)

    Whatever reasons a woman might have for being healthy, attractive, and fashionable, it's odd to expect men -- especially at a dance club -- not to pay attention. I'm the mouthpiece here, but it wasn't my attention that she was complaining about. (Yes, her comment could have been a brush-off, but it honestly didn't seem that way. She seemed happy to see me and hugged me goodbye.)

    There's feeling attractive, and feeling like an especially nicely marbled side of beef. One is really nice, the other's really not.
    I get this, but I wasn't going into depth about it in a post that's only tangentially related.

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  12. it may sound weird to you, but sometimes women go to clubs just to dance.
    This isn't at all weird to me -- some of those women are my friends. But it could be misinterpreted to reinforce the myth that women don't want sex.

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  13. Whatever reasons a woman might have for being healthy, attractive, and fashionable, it's odd to expect men -- especially at a dance club -- not to pay attention.

    This is a pretty standard response from guys, usually after a woman complains about being constantly approached/harassed. You do realize that "noticing" doesn't have to mean "coming over and forcing your company on me", right?

    When I go to clubs, it's to dance and hang out with friends. Guys do "pay attention" to my appearance - they look at me, and sometimes angle themselves toward me on the dance floor. But I angle myself away again and avoid prolonged eye contact and they take the hint and don't approach. If someone did approach, despite all my body signals that I want to be left alone, they are behaving inappropriately and I'll fucking complain about it all I want.

    I like being respectfully/discreetly checked out. It makes me feel sexy, and if people totally ignored my appearance all the time, I'd feel sad. What I don't like is guys feeling that they're entitled to interrupt whatever I happen to be doing just because they find me attractive.

    what meaning does "attractive" have (as applied to a person) that overlaps not at all with "sexually appealing"?

    I didn't say the two things were mutually exclusive. I said that women don't try to look nice only to get male attention (is a hot lesbian hoping guys will hit on her, too?).

    Do I want to look in the mirror and like what I see? Yes. Do my standards of attractiveness come from whether I'd be appealing to men? Probably; all women are socialized to evaluate ourselves as though a straight dude were looking at us ("the male gaze"). I'm not sure it's possible to escape that.

    But some days I wear a killer outfit just because I feel like it, and some days I wear a killer outfit because I want to impress other women (their compliments generally mean more to me; I never feel like they're just saying something nice to get into my skirt). Sometimes I play dress-up when I'm at home alone with nobody else to evaluate my attractiveness.

    If I do dress up with boys in mind, it's because I like the idea of being respectfully looked at and thought of as attractive. Not ogled, not catcalled, not having my personal space intruded on, not treated like "But I find you attractive so that means you're obligated to fuck me!!!"

    And my primary reason for weight training is that it makes me feel strong and capable, not because I'm hoping men will admire my toned butt. My target appearance is actually considerably more muscular than most guys like, although sadly it seems like I'm not genetically equipped to get there.

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  14. "But it could be misinterpreted to reinforce the myth that women don't want sex."

    Unfortunately, there are two different concepts in play here. One is "Do women want sex?" and the other is "Do women want sex with *me*?" One should be careful to remember that they are separate when one is turned down by a woman (or by anybody, really).

    Think about it this way: we've already established that women can want sex for themselves (i.e., not just for the pleasure of the man they're with). Similarly, why can't women want to be attractive for their own sakes, not for a man's sake?

    --Andy

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  15. Similarly, why can't women want to be attractive for their own sakes, not for a man's sake?
    Of course they can, and I didn't say otherwise. My point was that the standards by which a woman judges herself "attractive" are going to overlap with the standards by which other people (men or women, some or all -- it doesn't matter) will judge her to be sexually attractive.

    Women owe men nothing. The point of the post is that, contrary to my adolescent mindset, at least some of them, some of the time, want sex from men (and sometimes even from me).

    You do realize that "noticing" doesn't have to mean "coming over and forcing your company on me", right?
    Of course. Actually -- and I mention this only because it ties in with the overall post and not only with the two sentences that underlie all these comments -- the most common feedback I get on my attempts at meeting women is that I'm too passive. My problem is low self-esteem rather than dorkitude or jackassery.

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  16. My point was that the standards by which a woman judges herself "attractive" are going to overlap with the standards by which other people (men or women, some or all -- it doesn't matter) will judge her to be sexually attractive.


    Sure...but this still doesn't explain why a woman shouldn't complain when men harass her.

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  17. Sure...but this still doesn't explain why a woman shouldn't complain when men harass her.

    I don't think he's said that, to be fair.

    I doubt the original speaker distinguished clearly between "attention" and "harassment" and picking a post describing his experiences apart because neither he nor she did is feeling a little like dogpiling to me.

    Sure, it's an important distinction and a relevant conversation, but it's also not remotely like the original post was him complaining about being entitled to attractive women.

    Cents, two, worth exactly what was paid for 'em...

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  18. Late to the convo. While I wouldn't know personally, not having enough free time to be social, I kind of wonder if maybe the kind of places that women just go to have fun are also the kind of places that men go to pick up women. (I make no assumptions about whether that would be coincidental or cause and effect.)

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  19. I doubt the original speaker distinguished clearly between "attention" and "harassment"

    True...but I can't imagine a woman complaining about "male attention" unless it was something kind of intrusive. "Oh my god, everywhere I go men give me admiringly polite glances, it's just so awful!" is very, very unlikely to be the actual complaint here.

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  20. "Oh my god, everywhere I go men give me admiringly polite glances, it's just so awful!" is very, very unlikely to be the actual complaint here.

    I'm sure it wasn't, as everybody has explained to Bruno at great and I would argue somewhat redundant length.

    It's still a natural reaction to raise an eyebrow when someone complains of having way too much of something you desire but feel like you can't get. I'm sure being rich and famous actually IS very stressful, but the collective reaction to the wangsts of the rich and famous is usually a big eyeroll.

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