Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Let's Read Fifty Shades of Grey! Chapter 8!

When we left off, Dirk HardPec was raging out at Ana because she admitted to him that she was a virgin. I remind you that this is our romantic hero who is supposed to be the epitome of the sexually appealing man.
Content warnings for this chapter: graphic sex, general abusive dickheaddery. I tell some icky personal stories, one of which involves coerced ickiness and both of which involve blood.

“I don’t understand why you didn’t tell me,” he castigates me. “The subject never came up. I’m not in the habit of revealing my sexual status to everyone I meet. I mean, we hardly know each other.” I’m staring at my hands. Why am I feeling guilty? Why is he so mad? I peek up at him.
This is another one of those cases where E.L. James is showing her hand more than I'd expect.  Because everything Ana is saying to him is completely reasonable, and she's completely right that she shouldn't feel guilty and he shouldn't be mad.  Basically, everything here makes sense except the part where this is going to turn into a hot sexy romance.
“No one’s really, you know.” Come up to scratch, only you. And you turn out to be some kind of monster.
He is a monster, but not because he's kinky.  Considering that he's a stalker and a kidnapper (and an entitled douchebag and a shitty boss), being kinky is the least monstrous thing about him.
(And no, I don't know what is even going on with the grammar here.)
“We’re going to rectify the situation right now.” “What do you mean? What situation?” “Your situation. Ana, I’m going to make love to you, now.” “Oh.” The floor has fallen away . I’m a situation. I’m holding my breath. “That’s if you want to, I mean, I don’t want to push my luck.”
Hey, sort of a reference to consent!  James is really throwing me a bone here!

Even if that bone is wrapped in "being a virgin means you're broken and need a man to fix you" bullshit, I still appreciate it.
“Forget about the rules. Forget about all those details for tonight. I want you. I’ve wanted you since you fell into my office, and I know you want me."
...And it's gone.
"Forget about the rules" is not sexy, not when all your limits and safewords are in the rules.

Plus it's kind of galling how he's offering to have sex with her as a super special concession, like he's really doing a favor here because he's moved by her situation, and she ought to weep with gratitude for the gift of his cock.
The muscles inside the deepest, darkest part of me clench in the most delicious fashion.
I try not to think of my vagina as the "deepest, darkest part of me," either literally or metaphorically.  Maybe the thoracic aorta.
“You smell so good,” he murmurs and closes his eyes, a look of pure pleasure on his face, and I practically convulse.
Once again, can't say E.L. James doesn't spell this shit out.
“You’re very beautiful, Anastasia Steele. I can’t wait to be inside you.” Holy shit. His words. He’s so seductive.
Okay, note to all authors, everywhere: do not do this.  If he's seductive, the audience will notice.  If he's not, you can't fix that just by saying he is. This would be the latter case.
“How do you make yourself come? I want to see.” I shake my head. “I don’t,” I mumble.
Seriously?  She's spent the entire book oozing lust from every pore until she develops clogged lust-zits, and she's never once masturbated?  If she were a real person, I'd acknowledge "hey, some people don't," but this book isn't about the diversity of sexual experience. It's about how it's so wonderful and pure for women to have no sexuality until the right man forces them into it.
“Let’s see if we can make you come like this,” he whispers, continuing his slow, sensual assault. My nipples bear the delicious brunt of his deft fingers and lips, setting alight every single nerve ending in my body so that my whole body sings with the sweet agony.
And so she has an orgasm, in like thirty seconds, from nipple stimulation. Which is completely possible (hell, I've both done and caused it), but... generally not your first time out. Especially when you've never had any sexual thoughts or feelings or actions before in your life. Getting into the groove of partnered sex is to some degree a learned skill.
Suddenly, he sits up and tugs my panties off and throws them on the floor. Pulling off his boxer briefs, his erection springs free. Holy cow…
Sproioioing! Moooooo.
“I’m going to fuck you now, Miss Steele,” he murmurs as he positions the head of his erection at the entrance of my sex. “Hard,” he whispers, and he slams into me. “Aargh!” I cry as I feel a weird pinching sensation deep inside me as he rips through my virginity.
Okay, it's Awkwardly Personal Cliff Story Time!  The first time I had intercourse, it was quite painful and bloody (dramatic hymen tearing isn't always part of first intercourse, but boy, it can be), but at least he went slow at first.  Then he started pounding me porn-style and it's the only time in my life I've involuntarily cried from pain.  I shoved him off, scrambled away, and screamed "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?"
"I was trying to make it good for you. I was trying to hit your G-spot."
So... that's what comes up for me when I read this scene.
Two orgasms… coming apart at the seams, like the spin cycle on a washing machine, wow.
Shoulda set it on "delicates."
“I want to fuck your mouth, Anastasia, and I will soon,” his voice is hoarse, raw, his breathing more disjointed. Fuck my mouth! I moan, and I bite down on him.
Atta girl.
I'm skipping over a lot here.  I don't know, I'm probably jaded, but the sex scene is just... thrust thrust thrust, moan moan moan, yep he sure did put his sticky-outy part in her sticky-inny part, there ya go.  It's more boring than the dialogue, because at least the dialogue is entertainingly bad.
“See how you taste,” he breathes against my ear. “Suck me, baby.” His thumb presses on my tongue, and my mouth closes round him, sucking wildly. I taste the saltiness on his thumb and the faint metallic tang of blood.
What is it with this book and my personal terrible sex experiences?
Alright, this one is embarassing because at the time I tried to play it off as me being super kinky, but the truth is I had no choice in it: way back when I was sleeping with Benny, I started my period while we were having sex. And I didn't know it. And I was blindfolded.  And he stuck his bloody fingers in my mouth and rubbed them on my face.  And I licked them all sexy-like because I thought it was just regular sex juices, and he didn't tell me any different.  And then he started laughing at me and told me to go look in the mirror, and I was covered with blood.
Blurgh.

(A note for those who just started following: my relationship with Benny did not subsequently evolve into a beautiful romance wherein I gradually wore down his coarse exterior and with my kindness and patience earned the right to be treated like a human. It just evolved into more and more overt abuse.)
“You. Are. So. Sweet,” he murmurs between each thrust. “I. Want. You. So. Much.”
This. Is. Not. Sexy. It. Sounds. Like. He. Is. Being. Sarcastic. On. The. Internet.
I come, loudly calling out a garbled version of his name into the mattress
"Oh, Christedward GreCULLENNNNNNNN!"
When I wake, it’s still dark. I have no idea how long I’ve slept. I stretch out beneath the duvet, and I feel sore, deliciously sore.
I'm glad she finds it delicious, because she didn't really have the option not to be sore.  Mister "I fuck... hard" was pretty clear that he wouldn't deign to control himself.
I sit up, staring out at the cityscape in front of me. There are fewer lights on amongst the skyscrapers, and there’s a whisper of dawn in the east. I hear the music.
She's supposedly in Escala, which is a real building in Seattle.  (It's super expensive and "exclusive," of course, because nothing but the finest will do for Mr. MeatJuice.)  Escala, like most of downtown Seattle, is built on a steep southwest-facing slope.  There's a lovely sunset view, but if you look east, all you're going to see is a bunch of buildings and hills.
PoundCake is at the piano, completely lost in the music he’s playing. His expression is sad and forlorn, like the music. His playing is stunning. Leaning against the wall at the entrance, I listen enraptured. He’s such an accomplished musician.
The more I read Fifty Shades of Grey, the more I like Twilight. For all the terrible lines she gave us, all the sparklevamps and fang-c-sections, I don't think Stephanie Meyer ever wrote anything approaching the thudding wordbrick of "He's such an accomplished musician."
The "he plays piano because he's Sensitive and Tortured" thing was cheeseball in Twilight too, but at least there was a whiff of plausibility--Edward's had a long time to practice and a good reason to cultivate solitary hobbies.  Slab SquatThrust doesn't have that backstory; he's just good at piano because he is Perfect Perfectness.
I’m mesmerized watching his long skilled fingers as they find and gently press the keys, thinking how those same fingers have expertly handled and caressed my body. I flush and gasp at the memory and press my thighs together.
In a way, I guess it's kind of sweet how she never takes sexuality for granted?  Maybe her going all googly every time she thinks "Smash LampJaw has a penis under his clothes!" is a beautiful thing, like a person who lives next to the ocean but never stops feeling in awe of it.  But it keeps coming out less as "she has a beautiful sense of wonder" and more as "she is completely not able to process any of this."

At least she's happy, I think. Enjoy that while it lasts.

123 comments:

  1. "he whispers, continuing his slow, sensual assault"

    UMMMMM......wow.
    That's a hell of a red flag. I wasn't expecting the author to actually use words like assault in a story where there's supposed to be a veneer of consent.

    I'd expect to see metaphorical language like "assault" and "bear the brunt" in military fantasy where like, a city is besieged by an army or something. Not something I'd associate with boob kissing.

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    1. I've heard sexual acts described using metaphors like attack or assault often enough (and without any implication that it was actually unwanted) in sex stories that I didn't blink at that part. But I don't believe I've seen the words "delicious", "brunt" and "deft" combined quite so awkwardly ever before in my life.

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  2. "I cry as I feel a weird pinching sensation deep inside me as he rips through my virginity."

    Am I the only one that noticed that the above sentence seems to be saying that her hymen is internal rather than external? I recognize that this is a common error in amateur "erotic" fiction and one of the least troubling things here, but sometimes I'd just prefer to get stuck on the little things rather than all the glaringly awful things.

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    1. It's either the ol' "hymen four inches inside" trope, or he's doing something REALLY awful to her. :/

      (For those unstudied in hymenology: a hymen is a small membrane at the outer opening of the vagina. In real life it rarely covers the whole opening, it may or may not or tear with intercourse, it can tear from various things that aren't intercourse, and some people with vaginas don't have much of a hymen to begin with.

      But in fiction it's a "seal will break if product is fresh" guarantee of virginity, deep within the vagina and completely blocking it* that always and only tears the first time someone has sex.)

      *how do romance novel virgins have periods? the world may never know.

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    2. "*how do romance novel virgins have periods? the world may never know."

      Well, that's where the gushing virginal sex blood comes from, of course!

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    3. Wouldn't all the backed-up blood rot, though? Since it's not really connected to anything anymore.

      No, I'm sorry, that's a really disgusting image. I'm sorry.

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    4. As far as I'm aware it doesn't rot, but the more it backs up without being corrected the more issues a girl will have with pelvic/back pain and such. I think the worst thing it can result it is endometriosis which, to be fair, is pretty awful as it involves uterine tissue growing in places besides the uterus.

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    5. Re "weird pinching sensation deep inside me"
      Yeah, I don't even know what to think about that. It's not like it's the kind of pain that's hard to localize! (At least for me it's not?) There are a lot of nerve endings around there.
      I just can't understand how someone who's actually experienced pain caused by stretching the hymen could describe it like that. I guess the best case scenario is that the author is one of those lucky people who didn't have any pain? If she actually knows different and she's still writing it like this, that's just depressing.

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    6. how do romance novel virgins have periods?

      They don't, because banal bodily stuff isn't mentioned in romance novels. Nobody shits, either.

      But in real life, the hymen kinda irises open during menstruation and then irises shut again after. At least, that's what my mom said happens, and my own experience bears that out. I was able to wear a tampon during the two heaviest days of my cycle; on the other days, my hymen was more "open" than usual but not open enough so I had to use pads. When I wasn't menstruating, everything looked pretty closed up.

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    7. It would be interesting to know how large a percentage of all "pain and bleeding at first time PIV" were really just caused by a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than actual anatomy. I mean, if you're told over and over again that everyone with a vagina has been created in a "seal will break if product is fresh" way, and therefore you're GONNA hurt and bleed your first time, isn't that likely to make you very tense the first time you're gonna have PIV? And if you're very tense, wouldn't that in itself make pain and blood very likely?

      Plus I'm really fascinated by all those people who expect pain and blood and don't get it... and conclude that their hymen must have burst "doing sports". Seriously, what kind of sport would BURST YOUR HYMEN? It always makes me picture a girl playing hockey but seriously misunderstanding how you're supposed to hold the hockey stick... Coach is like "no, you hold it with your HANDS! Now pull up your pants and we'll start over again...".

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    8. I'm one of the lucky people who didn't have much hymen to begin with. I think the sports part is the explanation for people who don't want to be judged when it's not there. I personally used some toys before I got together with a guy, so even if I had had much of hymen, I would have widened it/ripped it. So maybe for those who have already widened/ripped it by experimenting they can say: "Well, sometimes they tear up during sports or something like that *cough* well, to bad!" Yes, the premise is kind of stupid (why would I have to lie about using sex toys before having sex with a guy?), but still it's some easy way out.

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    9. Dvärghundspossen: I think it can burst from riding (horses), for example. I had a friend in ... in... well, in högstadiet (what's the American equivalent, junior high?) who had her own horse and spent a lot of time on horse back, and I know that she one day, after a day out with her horse, had noticed blood specks in her underwear, even though she wasn't on her period or anywhere close to it, and a slight feeling of soreness. I have always thought that was because of hymenbursting thanks to horseback riding. I think it was she or George R.R. Martin who taught me that could happen :)

      (Personally, I think I burst my hymen masturbating)

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    10. Eh. I never got the horse thing, unless one were to do Things with the pommel that would be proscribed at any riding school I ever heard of.

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    11. I'm not a gynecologist or anything so I'm not gonna say that it's impossible that you somehow tear something up during sports, but... I can't believe that it's particularly common. Especially since most people who claim to have done so don't seem to remember any particular incident where they felt some pain and then had some blood coming out during a sporting event; it's usually more like a general statement "I guessed it happened when I was doing sports". My guess is that in the vast majority of such cases they just didn't have much of a hymen to begin with, or a very soft hymen, but they've been taught that there's this "seal will break if product is fresh" thing about vaginas, so they're grasping for an explanation.

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    12. Just as a note to anyone who might not know, romance-novel completely sealed hymens (called imperforate hymens in real life) are a real thing affecting 0.3-0.7% of women, and can cause serious medical problems if they haven't been treated or corrected themselves by one's first period. They can occur naturally or as a result of scarring from childhood sexual abuse. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/269050-overview#a0101

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    13. I was totally under the "deep within the vagina and completely blocking it" misconception for a very long time. Like, into university. Including when I started masturbating, at which point I figured that that's what I was hitting when I pushed something deep enough into myself to hurt (I'm now thinking that may have been my cervix?). And once I learned the actual state of thing, the 'wait, but periods' issue did occur to me, but until then, it hadn't.

      (And Anastasia seems even less versed in things than I was, so it would make a certain amount of sense for *her* not to know how it works, though not much sense for EL not to know)

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    14. There really is something deep within the vagina which feels like it partially blocks it, for me anyway - it's part of my pelvis, sticking out and pushing a bunch of tissue out in front of it. If I haven't had PIV sex for a while, the muscles get all tight and then it's hard to work something past that obstruction. I had a transvaginal ultrasound once after not having PIV sex for about three years (I have a vibrator but it's really narrow for exactly this reason) and it took the technician a couple of minutes to get the probe far enough in to hit my cervix.

      I have no clue whatsoever if this is normal anatomy or if I'm unusual in some way, but it's a thing, it just has nothing to do with my long-gone hymen.

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    15. We were taught that the hymen spread entirely over the vaginal entrance except for a small hole to let periods through.

      I've never been able to find anything like that.

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    16. I'm fairly certain I tore mine horseback riding. I was having my period at the time so I didn't notice extra blood, but there was a weird sharp external sort of pain that was very different from any menstrual pain I've had before or since. I wasn't doing anything particularly odd on the horse - probably jumping, though, so perhaps some impact due to that.

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    17. That and...my first time wasn't painful in the "his dick is piercing my hymen" way, it was painful in the "I'm being stretched WAY more than a tampon would stretch me" way. I'm pretty sure stretchy-hurt is part of a lot of people's first vaginal-penetration experience, and it always baffles me that so many fics make it sound like Ms. I've-Never-Had-Anything-In-There(Even-My-Own-Fingers) only experiences a brief moment of pain from the cherry-popping, and then no more discomfort whatsoever, let alone "She was a bit sore the next morning," unless our virginal heroine is raped her first time.

      Or do romance heroes have pencil-thin dicks? Because I can't see that being all that enjoyable. :/

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    18. Ditto to the "stretchy-hurt."

      Speaking as someone who started with what seemed to me to be a smallish hymen opening... there are maybe better mindsets to send people into first-time sex with than: 'quick, jam that thing up in there, it's supposed to hurt and tear, do it fast like a bandaid, no waiting.'

      'Cause yeah. Hymens are stretchy. You can actually kind of... work your way up to it. Ahem.

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    19. There are also those of us who damaged / ended our hymen through childhood exploration - say, a soapy crayon in the bathtub of a three year old... Close to 40 years later I remember nothing of the hymenal pain and EVERYTHING about the soap-in-itty-bitty-vagina pain.

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    20. Regarding tearing ones hymen in sports, I'm nearly positive mine broke doing a straddle vault in gym class gymnastics. There was a distinct, painful snap and I bled moderately for an hour or so after. I was 12, and I thought it was my first period. However I didn't actually get my real first period for another year...and that was totally different. A few years later when I lost my virginity, it did kind of hurt a bit deeper inside. I also bled a tiny bit then, but almost nothing. Just a little pink on the t.p. afterwards. Also, if there was anything left of my hymen before losing my virginity, I surely destroyed it through masturbation.

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    21. Since were talking about hymenology I'd like to mention what few people know: people with penises (intact, uncircumcized people with penises to be precise) have something analogous to a hymen. You see, the sharply curved bit back part of the head is not always laid barren but is originally connected to the foreskin. When I started masturbating as I was into puberty I this part slowly peeled off the back of my glans little-by-little exposing extremely sensitive flesh. It did hurt but after about a week the process was done.

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    22. @Dvarg, I was on e of those people who experienced blood and pain. Leading up to that were many attempts to have sex that didn't happen because it was too painful. I thought for a long time there was something wrong with me, that my pain tolerance was too low, that the past sexual abuse had made me psycho-symptomatic or something. Then I got pregnant, and when I went for my abortion, I was told I had two hymens. If I'd known that, or even if I'd been able to get past the silly, romantic idea that my hymen HAD to be broken by a dick, I'd have gotten that shit taken care of long before.

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  3. "deep within the vagina and completely blocking it"

    Sadly, that can happen in real life, at least the completely blocking it part. Then you have to have a hymenotomy with a scalpel at the doctor's (and local anesthetic, of course) to have sex or even sometimes to get your period; you can also get a hymenotomy if you're afraid of a painful first time (if you've got the money, can manage to arrange it, etc.)

    "Then he started pounding me porn-style and it's the only time in my life I've involuntarily cried from pain. "

    See, this is the problem with guys learning about sex from porn. I'm not saying porn should be censored or banned, I'm not even saying some women can't enjoy reenacting it, but if a guy's been whacking off to Max Hardcore movies since he was twelve and then it comes time for him to have sex with a real woman who's neither a porn star nor a hardcore masochist and probably a virgin herself? OUCH OUCH OUCH. You're lucky he didn't try shoving it up your ass with no lube or foreplay.

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    1. My first partnered sex opportunity happened when I was on my period. So my first time was up my ass with no lube.

      I had watched plenty of porn prior to think that this was something that should be tried. I had also read a book about sex to have some trepidation about doing it sans lube. Luckily, I didn't really need it, as we went slow (and after foreplay). It was an insanely pleasurable experience.

      I was still surprised to have so much blood after PIV with a different person. Firstly, I didn't really consider myself a virgin anymore. And secondly, I didn't feel anything tear. It felt like a "pop" that wasn't remotely large enough to throw off my groove.

      In other words, first times are different for everyone. I don't think that learning about sex from porn is bad as such, but a lack of education in health classes. Sex should be described as something people do for fun (and not just to make babies), and that (like most things) you get better at it with experience and open dialogue to see how you can improve your performance with your partners. Limits should be discussed... everything.

      In fact, we could try describing sex as something like a sporting event. Have rules, understand rules, obey the rules, and don't toss the rookie in unless you've done all you can to ensure that he/she/they are ready to play. Understand that the first time (or second time) can look messy afterward. Clean up the playing field. Practice as often as you need to.

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    2. ^First time commenting is awkward too. I just realized that this little writing window can get bigger, so that I can proofread each sentence without having to scroll so much.

      So... "I don't think that learning about sex from porn is bad as such, but a lack of education in health classes *is*."

      And I don't know what is going on with the sentence after that.

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    3. That anon comment @ 10:39 was obviously written by a male. Anal sex without lube is pleasurable? Comparing sex to a sporting event? I call bullshit.

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    4. I am a girl and have had pleasurable anal sex without lube. For me it seems to work fine as long as you start slow. I understand this is not typical, and quite a few people have had bad experiences with trying it, so I don't usually jump into these discussions, but why on earth call someone a liar about it? I don't think Cliff's blog is the right place for "You're doing sex WRONG".

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    5. Apparently, 'people who like weird sex' don't exist.

      Nor do women who like sports.

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    6. My first time with anal was also without lube, and not terrible cause we went slow, and after foreplay. I also had a boyfriend who was terrified of getting me pregnant so we had more anal sex than vaginal sex. Often without lube, always pleasurable. It's not impossible.
      Of course, my current partner is stupid thick so I'm like MORE LUBE PLEASE and there's an extra long build up.
      Also, I dislike sports but I like the sports metaphor. Yay for respecting limits and consent!

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    7. Anal without lube is definitely a minority ability, but I can tell you from several reliable sources that some women can do it.

      ...Refeencing sports is an ability I think most women have.

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    8. I'm female and a woman. I do not play or watch baseball. I can still use "home base" as a metaphor. Additionally, I am a hockey fanatic. Go Canucks.
      (Off-topic: There are sadly few really good hockey analogies. Interacting with people is like passing the puck, you want it to go just far enough but not too far or the ref will give you an icing call? Yeah, I got nothing.)

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  4. I read this and ch7 back to back so I might get a little confused. But right now I'm just so glad that my past and present doms are kind, sane people who actually negotiate and care for my well being. You know... not like this guy. I also got a chance to do so real live negotiating and text my dom to ask if he'd be into fire play sometime. He said yes! So... thank you for prompting me to do that. I know how to do it and he doesn't, but that is okay, because in the real world people can teach each other things, call their kinky friends, and read directions in order to learn new skills.

    Cliff, for a while people thought that virgins could NO menstruate because the hymen would be in the way. So menstruation was a sign of shame, it proved that you could not be a virgin. Not even kidding.

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    1. Ah, so that's part of where the stigma around menstruation comes from? Learn something new every day.

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    2. WHAT?

      OMFG being a menstruating 8-year-old would have been much crappier under those circumstances. *Shudder* *Twitch*

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    3. Um... Citation needed? I honestly have a hard time believing any culture really thought you needed to have sex in order to menstruate.

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    4. It's quite likely, because due to weaker nutrition in the olden days it was normal not to start menstruating till 17 or even 19, by which time you were quite likely to be married anyway.

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    5. Didn't think about the fact that puberty used to come later... So okay, if you live in a society that combines early marriage age with late puberty I can see how the idea would have gotten started. (Although I've read that it's a myth that people in general married really early hundreds of years ago... Marrying in your early twenties rather than your teens have historically been way more common. Don't have any citation on this though, it was something a historically well-versed person claimed once in an internet discussion, so I guess I really have no idea.)

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    6. I wish I could cite you. It's from a huge book on the history of the hymen buried deep in my university's library. I do not remember the name of the book, but I read it during a project on the history of menstruation stigma for a gender studies course a long time ago. It was a really cool book, there are a lot of misconceptions about hymens. Like misspiggy said, it had to do with the age of marriage and the age of first menstruation coinciding.

      This isn't something EVERYONE thought it ALL societies. It was something that was widely believed in one specific society for a period of time, and it worked because of their nutrition and marriage norms. But I guess the basic idea hung around.

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  5. Urgh. Maybe it's just me, but whenever the guy in the porno goes "I'd LIKE to go gently, but it feels too good", or "I simply CAN'T stop," or even "This WILL feel good. Eventually," I always get really annoyed. Especially in this example. And I'm annoyed that E.L James is sort of perpetuating this idea that the average vagina can just be used a punching-bag, regardless of the partner's wishes, and it'll feel good. Personally, I would find a guy who is asking me if I'm okay, hugging me when I need it, and respecting my wishes infinitely more sexy than this dickface. But again, I'm no Anastasia Steele.

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    1. Yeah, this scene made me really sad! I know he's supposed to be a big bad dom but insisting on going really hard for her first time is so fucking mean! Especially if he's well endowed, which I'm sure he is because romance novel bullshit. I love rough sex now but my first time was extremely painful even though my partner was going slow and being very considerate.

      I hope assholes don't take this book to mean that they can be jerks and hurt their partners as long as they call themselves doms.

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    2. Yeah I didn't expect the warning for "abusive dickheaddery" to be quite so literal.

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  6. Sproioing was possibly the funniest thing I've come across all day. Glad to see a new post!

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    1. I saved reading the review of ch. 8 until the end of a busy week because delayed gratification.

      "Sproioioing! Moooooo." made me snort out loud. Coz that's what people do on the Friday night commute, amirite ?

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  7. "Even if that bone is wrapped in "being a virgin means you're broken and need a man to fix you" bullshit,"

    Please, please, please replace 'bullshit' by 'baloney'.
    #terriblejokesI'msosorry

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  8. This. Is. Not. Sexy. It. Sounds. Like. He. Is. Being. Sarcastic. On. The. Internet.

    Or. Talking. Like. William.Shatner. :D

    -Fishgoat

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    1. Oh my God, I am forever going to read ManThrust's lines in the voice of William Shatner now! This will make everything twelve times more hilarious!

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    2. *bows* My work here is done.

      (If only it would make it twelve times less disturbing.... *shudder*)

      Delete
    3. http://www(.)youtube(.)com/watch?v=GlY7YnWvZBU

      (It's a Family Guy clip, but it's SFW, just a joke about William Shatner doing Tevye's opening monologue from "Fiddler on the Roof." Whenever people talk about William Shatner's voice it's what I think of.)

      Delete
  9. I had friends in college who'd never masturbated, but for personal/religious reasons, and certainly not for lack of having sexy thoughts. Ana's total lack of sexuality sort of weirds me out, because it's to the point it's almost like E.L. James unintentionally wrote her as asexual--which actually would've been really interesting, since I *do* identify as grey-asexual (though I've masturbated all my life, and am currently in a relationship with sex--I just don't experience any kind of sexual attraction), and it would've been nice to see asexuality explored in a prominent piece of fiction. But Ana clearly *isn't* meant to be asexual; instead her sexuality is absent because her virginity needed to be total and absolute, so that Christian's taking of it could be him taking *complete* ownership of her sexuality. She has literally never had a sexual thought or pleasurable feeling in her life that was not granted to her by him. One, that's super skeevy, and two, growing up asexual I sure *wished* I could have found a magic penis that would "cure" me (not that asexuality needs curing) because I *wanted* to feel sexual attraction, but that's not really how it works.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or -- horrible horrible fridge realisation warning here:

      Ana is indeed asexual, but Christian Grey can rape her straight with the power of his massive cock, is in fact the intention E.L. James was going for.
      The sad thing is, I don't think that interpretation actually makes 50 Shades noticeably more problematic...

      Delete
    2. On that note, there's a pretty cool parody of 50 shades called Shades of A, in which the main character is male, Muslim and very openly asexual. The Christian Grey character is this fantastic middle-aged transvestite, who is a sub instead of a dom. http://www.discordcomics.com/shades-cover/

      Delete
    3. Shades of A? Oh goodness yes it's cute as fudge!

      Delete
  10. I thought the piano playing was a reference to Phantom of the Opera -- another romantic story of passionate love and happiness ever after.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It reminded me of Pretty Woman...I don't know the Twilight books well enough to know if Edward played piano, so I thought EL James was ripping off that movie. It seemed like the kind of "romantic" bullshit she'd go for.

      Delete
    2. Re Phantom of the Opera; that was my first thought too. Then I thought about how, in both the book and the musical, Christine at least has the sense to pick up on some red flags and attempt to get away. Which would make this the second classic work where EL James completely misses the point and makes parallels between HunkMeister Scarypants and a canonical complete monster. And, by extension, brings to mind a classical ingenue from the distant and much less enlightened past, who still has more common sense and strength of will than Ana.

      Which brings me to a conflict; I know Ana's naivete and passivity doesn't mean she deserves this any more, but something about how she's portrayed bothers me beyond just "she's a poorly written character." It just hit me. Overcompensating SchlongTripod isn't the one who is being written as an unrealistic antihero whose red flags are all red herrings. He's not teaching people to ignore their instincts because those instincts turn out to be wrong So far, he's just a douchebag. It's Ana's character who is being manipulated into a kind of abuser's dream. She doesn't act like she wants or even understands what she's in for, but so far she suffers zero negative effects from the abuse, and I really doubt she will. Creepy Wepassedredflagsintoactualdoucheagesago gets to be an abuser, without having to deal with any kind of consequences. She's probably what abusers imagine their victims are like, so they can avoid questioning their morality. "Oh, deep down she liked it, so it doesn't matter that she gave no signs of liking it, I still wasn't doing anything wrong."

      I think that's the bigger danger of this book; not that Christian Grey will muddle people's ideas of what red flags are, not that people will start conducting BDSM experiments unsafely, but that abusers will see the popularity of these books as an affirmation of their fucked up worldview. "See, women love this book. It must be wishful thinking for them, so really I'm just fulfilling the dreams of Ana Steeles everywhere."

      Delete
    3. Regarding Phantom of the Opera, have any of you guys read "Awoken" by Serra Elinsen? It's a Twilight parody where instead of a vampire the high school girl falls in love with Cthulu. Although it's written in a completely straight manner, not your typically parody-style. I thought it was super funny... and instead of loads of Wuthering Heights references. or Tess d'Ubervilles references, it's Phantom of the Opera references.

      Delete
    4. Reading Lane's reply, it occurred to me to describe the protagonists as "unfortunately made for each other", and I was just pleased as punch with myself.

      Delete
  11. If you're sufficiently ignorant, as I was and I suspect Ana would be, masturbation can be hard to figure out. The connection between "tiny area that hurts intensely for a long time when you scratch your crotch the wrong way" and "according to educational websites, a noticeable protrusion that is extremely pleasant to touch" is not exactly clear, especially if you are using school computers and therefore can't click through to the diagram. And it's not like anyone *tells* you, "Yeah, those parts are fun to touch, but only if you think sexual thoughts in just the right way so that they swell up and start exuding fluids". In conclusion, American sex ed is terrible enough that I'm surprised most women figure this out by themselves.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unlurking for the first time to share this: I actually didn't figure that out for a long time. I would rub the tissue around my urethra (pleasant feeling, but not orgasmic) for HOURS, because I thought it was my clit. So frustrating! wasn't until i was 18 and stole my parents' back massager that i found it that little bugger. So yeah, you're not alone.

      Delete
    2. The latest Oh Joy Sex Toy ( http://www.ohjoysextoy.com/ ) has a bit where teenage Erika struggles to sort out how masturbation works, and only has the revelation when she buys her first bullet vibrator. As far as I'm concerned girls should get a vibrator and plenty of privacy as soon as they turn twelve (with, of course, an explanation that this is something *many* people like, not *everyone*, and there's nothing wrong with you if you don't care for it. Personally I like my vibrator now, but my first Troo Luv was the showerhead.) I don't really get why there's a big fuss about letting teenagers buy sex toys, it's not like most of them can hurt you unless you're using them absolutely and totally wrong.

      Delete
    3. This^ (in response to first Anon). I'm AFAB and I didn't start masturbating *manually* (with my hand, that is; I previously only knew about thigh friction) until I was at least 13. Part of it was that I only knew about sex as vaginal/procreative sex, so I initially had no idea that any of the clitoral sensations I had (let alone the feelings I got from fantasies pertaining to my kinks) had anything to do with sex. So yeah, understanding that "weird crotch sensations" = sexual stuff isn't always easy.

      (Of course it should also be mentioned that I'm autistic and not always good making implied connections/ thinking outside the box with stuff like this, which may or may not have to do with the autism. As a kid I had a ridiculous lack of curiosity about where babies came from; I never even asked until I hit puberty. I assumed for years that some kind of magical process happened when two people got married.)

      Delete
    4. That is totally normal^, Anon. It was a revelation when I realized you didn't have to be married to have babies (a revelation I announced loudly in a restaurant, as kids do, and made the lady at the next table choke laughing).

      And I never actually realized my first orgasm was in fact an orgasm, because our sex-ed had COMPLETELY left out that those were a thing. My boyfriend was grabbing my crotch through my jeans and suddenly boom, and I was all "Hey, that felt pretty good but also kind of weird, what the hell was that?" That was in high school. I wasn't actually able to give myself an orgasm until I was almost 19, and that was NOT from a lack of trying.

      Also adding that the weeks prior to my first penetrative sex (also age 19) were full of finger play (SO much finger play), so my hymen was nicely stretched out and there was no pain at all. Fast forward to many years later when I had my first sexual encounter after about five years of celibacy, and WOW, there was stretching. There was pain. No blood, but whoo boy I had to sit on a pillow the next day, I was not expecting that. Because it turns out your hymen will actually return to its original position after enough time if nothing is stretching it out! And I even knew this beforehand. But given this wasn't actually my first time and I knew what I was doing, and the guy was a total sweetie, and I had crazy fun with him, I took some pride in the next-day pain, like after a workout. Feel the burn baby, lol.

      Delete
    5. My parents handled the "where babies come from" bit by leaving educational books around for us to find. I can recommend this method to shy parents :)

      Delete
    6. Just make sure the diagrams are accurate. The first book my mother gave me basically had an arrow going from the male figure to the female figure. Yeah, they explained sperm meets egg, yadayada - never explained how the sperm got to the egg!

      -Fishgoat

      Delete
    7. We found one at my boyfriend's house that explained how the sperm meets the ovum.

      The penis is inserted into the "baby-making hole"... uhhh...

      Delete
    8. Yes my gosh - I "masturbated" by just playing with my labia basically for sooo long until I discovered my clit...and when I did, also thanks to my protestant upbringing, I felt very ashamed of touching myself there, and it wasn't until college that I attempted to insert ANYTHING - even a finger. SIGH. Thank goodness I'm over all that now!!

      Delete
    9. I am pausing now for a moment of gratitude to my mother, who started me off with a copy of 'our bodies, ourselves' and a hand mirror. And explicitly told me that masturbation was good and normal.

      Also, despite the abject horror of my 11-yo peers, I really appreciated that her reaction to my first period was to hand me OB tampons (which have no applicators... resulting in the (horror!) of using your finger)

      She also gave me the least phallic back massager ever when I was 15, but I had the hand technique down pat by then.

      Delete
    10. For a very long time, I had my clitoris and the area around my urethra mixed up. As in, I thought my clitoris was where I urinated from.
      I'm not sure how (I guess I NEVER looked down while peeing?) but I somehow maintained this mistaken belief until I was 21 and my now-husband corrected that belief by confusing the hell out of me by stimulating my clit (to which I responded "...are you trying to make me pee?" and a hilarious-in-hindsight conversation ensued).
      ...yeah. I went to church-basement Jesus school, if that explains anything.

      Delete
  12. Ugh. This reminded me of all the terrible sex I've ever had. Especially how he takes her virginity OUCH NO JUST NO

    ReplyDelete
  13. Also, the phrase 'thudding wordbrick' is just about the most glorious thing ever. Cliff, I've been lurking here for a year or so, and your writing cracks me up. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Did I miss Beef McHardsplunk putting on a condom?

    Delurking to say that one of the problems I had with my first few D/s experiences was my partner not wanting to wear a condom. He would let it slip off or when I was in something like subspace, start thrusting and come inside me without one. I was an adult at the time and knew better than to continue sleeping with someone who would do that to me, but the state of mind I was in... He really took advantage of me not wanting to say no. And I had no idea that sex could actually be ... Good... And I didn't want to give that up. The personal risk seemed acceptable, and to insist my partner wear one seemed like going backwards? with my dom.

    Never again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Surprisingly, he does rubber up:
      "
      “I assume you’re not on the pill.”
      What! Shit.
      “I didn’t think so.” He opens the top drawer of the chest and removes a packet of condoms.
      "
      Though iirc, this is more because he's afraid of spawning a child than out of any concern for her.

      Delete
  15. Thankfully, back when I lost my virginity, porn sex wasn't rough and pounding. But aside from the hymen issue, a man slamming into a woman's original tightness would still be painful. Besides, didn't he say he was going to "make love" to her?

    ReplyDelete
  16. As a doctor, I'm now trying to decide what part of the human body *would* rate as the deepest and darkest.

    I think I'm going with the tail of the pancreas. I might end up taking this to a medical chat forum to canvas opinions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe the interior of the aorta? If you do, could you post the link? Med student here, and totally curious.

      Also, thanks for your posts Cliff. Always brilliant, and especially humorous.

      Delete
    2. I'm going to go with the small intestines as deepest and darkest! It depends how we're defining deep, since it's probably not the deepest in terms of absolute distance from inside the body to outside the body, but if we're going in terms of distance one must pass *through* ..then if the small intestines are 24 feet long, roughly halfway through that should be pretty deep and dark!

      Of course, I'm also mostly choosing small intestines because it makes all of Ana's delicious muscle clenching *really* funny. :)

      Delete
  17. “You’re very beautiful, Anastasia Steele. I can’t wait to be inside you.” Holy shit. His words. He’s so seductive.

    I thought that this sounded like Ana was taking the piss, as this sounds incredibly UNseductive. Mind you, Ana doesn't seem too fussy when it comes to Sick RankSausage.

    Here again she is 'talking' like a 13yo.

    ReplyDelete
  18. If she were a real person, I'd acknowledge "hey, some people don't," but this book isn't about the diversity of sexual experience.

    Thank you for this. Usually people who criticize this book are all "OMG WHAT WOMEN DOESN'T MASTURBATE LOLOLOL", which is hugely alienating to some asexual people who have no desire for it. So it's great that you have included it, and it certainly helps certain people feel less freakish for it. *coughmecough* I will admit it makes no sense in this book, considering how she practically lets loose a flood of love juice just from hearing him breathe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not to mention, there are a lot of women who feel ashamed of their sexual urges, and don't masturbate for that reason.

      No matter what the reason, nobody should ever be made to feel ashamed about how much, or if, zie has masturbated. What you do with your own genitals is nobody's business but yours.

      Also, much love to asexual folks everywhere, who get a lot of stupid crap dumped on them for not wanting to have sex with anybody.

      Delete
    2. There is a certain subsect of feminists who are entirely baffled by asexuals and insist they either don't exist or that they just THINK they don't like sex/masturbation because PATRIARCHY or some shit. *rolls eyes* Apparently your body is only your business if you're fucking someone with it, I guess. I don't know if I want to qualify myself as an asexual, but I certainly consider myself closer to that than the mainstream hetero/homsexual.

      That said, I'm sure the majority of asexuals want nothing to do with Anastasia Steele or her inner goddess.

      Delete
  19. So clearly E.L. James is one of those who thinks hymens work like this: http://pbfcomics.com/227/

    But here's an excellent article on how hymens actually work: http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/02/sexual-mythbusters-vol-2-all-hymens-are-created-equal/

    BTW, I've begun looking forward to the "Let's Read 50 Shades of Grey" posts as much as I look forward to the Cosmocking posts.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please send this link to CrapWriter McGee before she trilogies again. Please?

      Delete
  20. Is it weird that I still sometimes catch myself thinking "He has a penis under his clothes!" about my husband? I'm 34. Urrggg.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See, I TOTALLY LOVE being jackhammered, and my first time was as pounding and rough as this scene. It even made me feel all sexy tingly after. I giggled! With delight! The difference is, I asked for it. With words. Which is a pretty big difference IMO.

      Delete
    2. Soooo... that's supposed to be a reply to the anon two comments down. Sorry, anon, I don't know what happened. My comment to you is: That's adorable. It's cute when you have a (presumably...?) good relationship.

      Delete
    3. I totally am repeatedly struck googly-eyed by glimpses of my partner's body through/under/in/without clothes. I tend to think it falls under Cliff's category of "beautiful thing"/"lives next to the ocean but never stops feeling in awe of it".

      Delete
  21. Whoa, really sorry about that story with Benny *internet hug*. I had a sort of similar one that put me off period sex for quite a long time. It was my first time having sex during my period. We put towels on the bed, got the condoms out like responsible adults (well, teenagers) and had plenty of fun. He came and when he looked down to get the condom off, he went very pale. He left for about half an hour with just a stammered "I'll be right back".
    I was understandably offended, off-put and pretty angry. He panicked, said there was just a lot of blood and it was a lot to take in, etc. We both got over it in time, though we now keep the bloody sex mostly to the shower. Communication skills, we haz them hahaha!

    ReplyDelete
  22. This entire encounter icks me out big time, but I just don't understand how this whole "I practically raped you" turning into "True Love" has persisted so long in crappy "literature". If he cared about her at ALL, especially knowing she had no experience, he would have been incredibly patient and gentle. And for her to be feeling all romantic and sexy tingly after being physically mauled like that is just...so much no. Oh, sorry. So. much. no.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Also from this chapter:

    “You are mine,” he whispers. “Only mine. Don’t forget it.”

    What, so, he planted his flag and now he owns her? Is that how it works?

    I don't remember any kind of "let's be exclusive" talk. Unless, you know, this was it. I can totally see him later on going "But I said we'd be exclusive and you didn't disagree! That means you agreed! I verified that with the author!"

    Ah, but it was in the contract. Which she didn't agree to. So it's just late paperwork again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah, this is how it works. you go fuck with a guy and he says "now, you are mine." and i say "i don't belong to anybody." and he doesn't understand my sentence.

      Delete
    2. Or 'misunderstands' "I don't belong to anybody" to mean "I'm totally free to be yours" and thinks you're agreeing with him. :P:P

      -Fishgoat

      Delete
    3. haw haw, yeah. cause y'know, once a man has your virginity, he has your soul.

      Delete
    4. I'm pretty sure that was in the "Contract" - which it doesn't even look like she signed or even fully finished reading through before he ploughed her. But I haven't actually read it so I could be wrong.

      Delete
    5. Planted his flag. Heh.

      "You don't own me. I'm my own person."

      "...Do you have a flag."

      Delete
  24. Just curious: are Brandon/Alan and Jon/Benny the same person?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Jesus Christ! I just discovered your blog (am enjoying it very much, so thank you), but what Benny did with your menstrual blood was FUCKED UP! It's not okay to humiliate someone like that. If that happened to me, I'd carry the memory-scar for life.

    I'm sorry that happened to you. Sending you telepathic hugs right now...

    ReplyDelete
  26. Thank you thank you for your public service in reviewing this crap and pointing out how it is NOT the way BDSM should be. As for the hymen discussion: Mine was so thick the OB/GYN couldn't do a pelvic exam on me. She had to surgically cut it open, with anesthetic and post-operative cream. I was 22 at the time and had attempted sex before but couldn't achieve it. About 6 months after the procedure, I finally did.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Same here. Tried having sex for YEARS and couldn't, not till I had an abortion and the doctors finally broke it.

      Delete
  27. All of this stuff is terrible.

    But I really *do* like the whole thing with the sticky-outy part in the sticky-inny part. It is so good.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Of all the wonderful, thoughtful, thought-provoking commentary and excellent points made here, the thing that left the biggest impression on me is still, "Sproioioing! Moooooo." LMAO

    ReplyDelete
  29. Yes, that repeated oioioi really makes it. In my mind at least that translates into lovely cartoon style of sound effect. Just plain "spoing" wouldn't have worked.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Ladies and gentlemen you have the most popular contemporary romance novel. My word, the average woman has creepy taste in porn. Of course, men also read 50 Shades of Grey but let's not kid ourselves by saying that men are romance novels' target demographic. The average man's porn is not much better but at least its merely moronic and unrealistic instead of being downright creepy. I'd take a dumbass pizza-delivery-to-sex story over a scaryass abusive-relationships-are-hot story.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feel that I was being overly harsh in this comment. I should stress that there's nothing wrong with having a fantasy of any sort. However, I simply cannot fathom why so many women would find this sort of fantasy appealing. The average woman would not (I hope) find a relationship with Burt BeefMeat over here appealing and yet she wanks happily over the idea. Perhaps it has something to do with the passive role that society assigns to women.

      Society shows women messages of the fun and freedom that comes with sexual liberation yet society simultaneously tells women that good girls are chaste and passive. So we have a situation in which women want sex but feel bad if they go around seeking it directly. The result: many women feel the only way they can both get sex and remain good is to be forced or all-but-forced into it by someone. That's just an educated guess, of course, do any of you have a better idea?

      One bit of advice: Ladies, the best way to get a guy you like to notice you is to approach and talk to him. Yes, it's scary to initiate and you risk the bitter sting of rejection but your sex life will be vastly improved if you can find the courage and confidence.

      P.S. Note that I'm speaking in generalities above, of course many women do not fit neatly into their social role but I'd hazard to say that a majority of them do and we ought to change that.

      Delete
    2. I think one reason why this book is so popular is that it's BDSM porn that you can buy "normally" in a "normal" book store.
      If you are vaguely interested in BDSM, but you don't have a clue where to get information/erotica, that's the most simple possibility.

      *thinking of my teenager years where I copied pages of "120 Days of Sodome" out of a library cause I didn't know anything about porn and BDSM*

      Delete
    3. (same anon here)
      ... and never forget the "women don't like porn"-stigma and the possible anxiety of e.g. going into a sex shop being a young woman... so I totally get why it's most women who buy this book. Men simply have other porn ressources available.

      Delete
    4. Agreed on both points. Though thankfully, things are at least starting to change on some fronts, considering the rise of e-readers and thus nobody has any idea what you read if you pull things off right. Even then, I do appreciate the value of a "legitimate" book containing lots of sex.

      Delete
    5. I don't consider this book to be well written, but I don't think most women have creepy taste in porn. It seems that what most men want in porn is for the men in the porn to want to do any woman on earth and the women in porn to want to do any man or any woman on earth. I can't relate to or enjoy that kind of porn at all.

      I'm a woman, and I enjoy porn where the woman finds the particular man involved to be uniquely attractive, there is unique chemistry between them, or the situation is uniquely erotic.

      The whole idea of men wanting to do every woman they happen to meet and women wanting to do every man and every woman they happen to meet is so absurd and unfathomable to me that it's impossible to enjoy that kind of porn.

      I also find it kind of odd that men are so turned on by the idea that the man is NOT special at all to the woman. She'll literally do ANYONE. I find that to be very strange. Why wouldn't a man want to feel special, that he is so awesome that she chose HIM?

      Delete
    6. Well, speaking about the younger me, it's because I assumed I would never be that awesome so the porn felt like it was written for someone else.

      Delete
    7. Tisklish: I think it's the idea of free sexual gratification with no emotional attachment or obligation. Just lustful abandonment. Giving into one's id is generally a fantasy that most people have. However, the fantasy doesn't take much reality into account such as biological bonding. Also, the porn industry likes to frame these as random encounters that happen spontaniously instead of thought out agreements with rules and discussion beforehand.

      Delete
  31. "Sproioioing! Moooooo."

    Thank you for this, I just spat orange juice on the cat.

    ReplyDelete
  32. "The muscles inside the deepest, darkest part of me clench in the most delicious fashion.

    I try not to think of my vagina as the "deepest, darkest part of me," either literally or metaphorically. Maybe the thoracic aorta."

    I always interpreted that as somewhere right beneath the diaphragm.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Am I the only one who thought she sounded like a pirate when he entered her? "Aargh"

    ReplyDelete
  34. "Sproioioing! Moooooo."

    I am never ever going to stop laughing.

    ReplyDelete
  35. THANK YOU for pointing out how fucked up and NOT sexy sex like this is. You've embarked on a worthy mission here: to bring a sex-positive feminist perspective to the 50 Shades phenomenon, romance and kink. You go, girl.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Very words. Much seductive.
    xDDD
    (scnr ^)

    ReplyDelete
  37. Pulling off his boxer briefs, his erection springs free. Holy cow…
    Sproioioing! Moooooo.

    Oh man. That was pure gold, made my chest hurt from laughing!

    ReplyDelete
  38. "Sproioioing! Moooooo."

    OMG, this really made my day. Can't stop laughing...

    ReplyDelete
  39. You are an incredibly interesting human being and this blog has become my new favourite thing. Thank you for sharing so much important & great info on BDSM & enlightening people on how shitty FSoG is. Thank you for sharing your own difficult experiences. I think a lot of other women can (sadly) probably relate (I know I can) to many of them & it is weirdly comforting to read things that remind me I'm not alone in some of those awful things (although maybe that sounds horrible... I dunno. I hope not!)

    anyway. You're awesome. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  40. “That’s if you want to, I mean, I don’t want to push my luck.”

    Not, you know, "I don't want to do anything you don't want to do, because that's not cool." But just "I don't want to push my luck." *headdesk* Hopefully it's less creepy in proper context??

    ReplyDelete