I love this xkcd.
And since someone asked for it in comments, here's some random PUA site!
As PUA concepts go, I actually don't disagree with "cocky and funny" in principle. I like guys who are confident and even jokingly arrogant, as long as they don't actually take themselves that seriously and they're able to show more vulnerability as we get closer. And of course I like funny guys. If you can make me laugh so hard I almost barf, you can pretty much have your way with me.
The problem with "cocky and funny" as a strategy, however, is that it's like suggesting a runner use the strategy "go fast." Cockiness and funnitude are talents, not traits that can be simply turned on. If you're not innately a confident and witty dude, and you don't have any particular knowledge or experience in the fields of self-esteem and comedy, but you just decide to put on your cockyfunny hat, the results can be... unfortunate.
Which brings us to the Top Ten Ways To Use Cocky And Funny!
#1 Perfect your delivery - You have to brush-up the way you deliver a comment. This includes eye contact, tone of voice and timing. They’re all important.
I said run fast, dammit. The speed with which your feet push off the ground? It's important.
#2 Joke about a point system - The idea here is to suggest that if she loses enough points, you may not want to see her again. If she likes broccoli and you hate it, she just lost a point.
This isn't terrible--I have friends who do this and it isn't weird--but you're not supposed to actually keep score. And when my friends do this, it doesn't make me think "oh god I better not lose more points because this one's a keeper"; it makes me think "man, that's the third time he's made a 'points' comment, he's really due to move on before this turns awkward."
#3 Jokingly express your doubts - This is a variation on the “you just lost a point” theme. Whenever she does something that suggests she could be a loser, a nerd or otherwise unworthy of your attention, tell her, “I don’t think this is going to work out.”
Again, not terrible on its own, but it's hard to imagine a woman so insecure and literal that she's consumed by terror that she's going to lose you (and consequently is willing to do anything to keep you, baby) because of your jerkish offhand comments.
#4 Use sarcasm - When a woman says something totally obvious, you can reply with “Really? Wow. That must be the most fascinating thing I’ve heard all week.” Say this with a sly smile!
Okay, now you're just a douche. A guy who's actually funny might be able to pull this off and not get worse than an "oh, you", but a guy who doesn't have the instincts and is going through the motions based on a top ten list is going to whip this one out as I tell him my grandpa died.
#5 Disqualify her by age - The idea here is to convey the notion that if she’s young, she’s not young enough, and if she’s older, she’s not old enough. What makes this interesting and different is that it’s the opposite of what most women would expect you to say.
"Haha! I'm a creep! Hilarious!"
#6 Guess her weight - Tell her you can guess her weight. Then do something silly that’s completely not related to her weight, like taking one of her fingers and examining it really closely to say that she ways about 500 pounds. But, remember to use this only on women who are very fit.
This entry lifted directly from Uncle Elmer's Rootin-Tootin Party Tricks for Barn Dances and Sock Hops. It's right after the one where you find a nickel in her nose.
#7 Be playfully mean - Say something that could be mean, but in a playful way.
"You are the most disgusting, physically repugnant, willfully idiotic, emotionally monstrous, and frankly malodorous human being it has ever been my misfortune to encounter. Ha ha!"
#8 Slap her hand - Next time she says anything that could be interpreted as “bad” or even “naughty,” ask her to give you her hand, take it, slowly turn it upside down, and gently slap the back of it.
See, this is one of those situations where I'm torn. On the one hand, I know guys who will slap me right across the face for something like that. On the other hand, this is happening in a kinky context and it's an understood joke/play thing between us, not something they just bust out on me.
#9 Give stupid answers to stupid questions - If a woman asks you a lame question such as, “Do you date a lot?”, reply with something cocky like, “Who me? No, never. I usually stay at home, locked in my room playing Nintendo, can’t you tell?”.
Yeah. I kinda can tell.
#10 Bust her on her jokes - If she tries to be funny in any way, let her finish and ask “I’m sorry, was that supposed to be funny?” Keep a straight face when you do this.
Okay, now this is the height of douchebaggery. I can forgive the 500-pound finger and all the "you're about to lose me, better jump on my cock quick" gambits, but what the fuck. Seriously. If there's a line between funny-mean and mean-mean, this is like twenty miles past that line. Funny guys are fun because they're engaging, and conversations turn into repartee. A guy who shuts a girl down with "no, no, this is my performance, no one cares what you say" is killing that repartee with a fucking sledgehammer. If you're so much better than me at everything, wouldn't you have more fun masturbating anyway? Jerk.
Ultimately, the reason this list is so creepy is that it isn't about being cocky and funny in the way that I understand them--as ways for someone to be amusing and fun to be around. It's about playing the "I'm too good for you, you're too bad for me, so if you don't blow me right now you'll wallow in loneliness forever" card. In a funny way! No wonder it isn't that much of a belly laugh.
I've begun to think that the whole PUA thing misinterprets the Cocky and Funny thing.ReplyDelete
It seems to me that the guys that can pull that kind of stuff naturally have it in their heads that "Hey, I'll just treat her like one of my friends." When you see guys with their friends they're constantly poking fun at each other, being braggarts, and a whole host of other behavior that if applied to a woman would be considered Cocky and Funny.
It's amazing what happens to a lot of guys (including myself far too much) when they deal with women. There's "treat you like a douche bag, but I'll still hang with you anyhow (with a huge genuine smile of friendship)", which most guys are to their guys friends, and then there's "treat you like you're from a different dimension (with creepy please touch my pee pee smile)" nice, which what most "betas" do, I guess.
In short, men that need PUA advice probably would do well to stop looking at women as lab rats. No amount of "Stimulus A will produce Reaction B" will help them with women.
Of course, I'm just talking out of my ass. :/
Untamed vajayjay say GRR BARK WOOF BARK BARK GRRR.ReplyDelete
Translation: You know, Holly, I don't really understand the PUA thing as much as I pretend to. Reading through these "rules" sound a lot like stuff I do as part of my, you know, actual "personality" a lot of the time - especially if I'm flirting (the 'slap on the hand' to indicate interest, i.e. physical contact). But I have to agree with you on Rule #10 there: that would be the point where, without fail, I would walk away.
I mean, if I had never read this list, for every one of these 'rules' a PUA tried on me, he'd definitely lose my favor pretty quickly anyway. If he tried rule 10 on me, I'd lay him out cold. (Possibly literally.) That's not only crossing the line into mean-mean, that's just socially ridiculous and rude, no matter who you're talking to.
I just don't understand the idea here that women are "prizes" and should be seen, captured, and displayed but not otherwise encouraged. I thought guys were supposed to LIKE women.
Then again, if you're too socially impotent to cultivate REAL relationships, I guess it would make sense (to them) to know how to simulate a false one.
That list of suggestions about how to be "cocky and funny" is all just variations on "the neg", which as I understand it is the idea that you constantly give a woman negative feedback about herself, and this makes her feel bad about herself and convinced she is truly undesirable, and thus she will fuck you even though you are a total fucken douchebag.ReplyDelete
I don't mind the joking "points system" and "it's not gonna work out" stuff, if used sparingly. But the hand-slap thing would so totally rub me the wrong way. The first two jokes simply imply to me that the guy has standards; presumably he knows that I have standards, too, and I'm evaluating how much I like him as well. The slap, on the other hand, implies to me that the guy thinks he's better than me, presumes that he has the right to censor what I say, and believes I would enjoy being disciplined. All three of these assumptions are dead fucking wrong.ReplyDelete
Ah, well. PUA guys wouldn't want to date a "top" like me, anyway. I don't care whether or not a guy makes money, I expect to be treated with respect, I tell guys I want to fuck them instead of waiting to be coerced...where's the sportsmanship? Where's the challenge? :P
You know PUA only works on insecure women, yes? It simply re-affirms beliefs they have about themselves already. Which is why it works. What I can't fathom is why you seem so fascinated by it. PUA may claim to work on all women, but it only targets a specific minority (and makes them believe they won't ever do better because this is what all women do, right?). If you're not in the minority it won't work on you, and making fun of something that actually happens and is intended to take advantage of vulnerable parties is rather..... low.ReplyDelete
#2 or #3 would immediately make me feel all insecure all right (am not naturally "funny" in this way & see 0% of funny there), BUT they would also make me suspect the guy is a jerk and feel somewhat bad after-taste post-date, thus reducing chances of being enthusiastic about him. Why telling somebody "you are not good enough" is supposed to be funny at all? I honestly don't understand. I would've answered in RL "Well, that's why it's called dating and getting to know each other, to check whether we're suitable" with a smile, to express my displeasure in a nice, polite way. Thankfully, I may be quite insecure, but at least I am not shy & wouldn't have any difficulty to tell a man stop acting like a jerk. A date is not a job interview, no reason to smile politely while feeling bad.ReplyDelete
If I thought somebody was displaying PUA tactics one after another, I would directly ask him about that too. May be I should make anti-PUA site for women? Answers, like "I feel you would be much funnier, if you just were yourself" come naturally to me. And I could tell that in RL conversation too. (With a smile, again, to avoid feeling like a rude person, while probably behaving like one).
#6 isn't funny.
#7 Can somebody give an example? Imo, being funny is a plus, but "funny but mean" is OK with friends, not on the 1st date.
#8 - quite vulgar, imo
#9 OK, I'll let that fly.
#10 - very, very impolite.
Having been into PUA myself for some time, I would like to comment on this.ReplyDelete
If anyone is being obvious about PUA "tactics", then it will show. I believe the PUAs have a term called "congruence test", where a women consciously or subconsciously does things to tell if a man is actually cocky and funny, or if he's just spouting lines. Stuff like giving a man shit for no reason to test if he maintains his composure, or asking him to hold her purse to see if he is a total doormat.
It is true that some men display "cocky and funny" traits more than others. But it is also true that the appearance of such traits can by synthesized through the use of game. This is huge: if all you do is learn random lines without internalizing the proper attitudes about women, you will suffer.
In truth, it's not about the lines, it's about how you deliver them. The lines are just there to help your confidence, they have no magic power. I've heard of guys opening girls with lines like "Can I pee in your buttcrack" and "I can smell your ovaries". Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Okay, I know I'm totally necro'ing this thread, but I'd throw a drink in the face of any man who tried any of that shit on me. Cocky and funny? No, none of it. Lousy, arrogant, misogynistic little shit who should never get laid in his life. Creep who doesn't see women as human beings but as inconveniently unpredictable life-support systems for vaginas. I'm not the most secure person in the world, but some slimeball trying that on me would AT BEST get a contemptuous "You're trying PUA crap. So, you don't like women and have never had a real relationship. The door is that way, goodbye."ReplyDelete