Friday, March 26, 2010

The Beta Male.

1) Yes, it's sarcastic. The things below?  Not actually true. I thought this was apparent to anyone who had spent time on Earth.
2) If you post a bitter trolly comment, I won't let it through moderation unless I have a funny comeback.
3) Go out and make some friends. You might or might not get laid. Either way you'll be happier and know more about how humans actually work.
-Holly Pervocracy, 5/1/2012

There is a frighteningly large population of heterosexual men for whom not getting laid has become a lifestyle and an identity. They're "love shy," they're "beta males," they're "average frustrated chumps," they're "incel," they're "nice guys."

These are the tenets of their belief system:

* The word "woman" refers exclusively to slender, outgoing, fashionable, conventionally beautiful heterosexual white women under 30 who aren't too slutty. Other types of woman aren't undesirable so much as nonexistent.

*With this extreme restriction on female existence, there are far fewer women than there are men, so competition is fierce. Only the rare lucky or skilled man is able to get a woman.

*Women are not, inherently, attracted to men. A woman would certainly never pursue a man or initiate contact with him; at best she accepts applicants and judges them harshly.

*Women get an enormous thrill out of rejecting men. It's like having an orgasm while winning an Oscar and eating chocolate-covered bacon. God it's good. When a man submits his Application To Get Laid to a woman, she looks for any excuse to reject him, because she's just itching for that thrill. A woman's ideal evening is rejecting fifteen men and going home alone, and it's up to a man's luck or skill to break that streak.

*Friendship with a woman is an extremely drawn-out form of rejection, in which every time you meet and she doesn't fuck you is its own little mini-rejection. The only reason some men remain friends with women is that they continue to hold out foolish hope.

*"I love women!" Women are like sports cars you can stick your dick into. They're good to be seen with, good to use privately, and just plain fun to own. Of course these guys "love women"--who wouldn't love an awesome toy like that?

*Some men are alpha males, and everyone likes them and they can get lots of women while acting like total assholes and it's no fair. These men are chosen by random lottery at birth and did nothing to deserve their status.

*The vast majority of men are beta males, and can never ever have sex because the alphas are taking all of the women. Women meet in secret to trade lists of known beta males; this is why a totally unfamiliar man can walk into a totally new venue and all the women will just know they're supposed to ignore him. It's certainly not anything he does.

*As women are not attracted to men, a man's attempts to be traditionally "attractive"--being well-groomed, smelling good, appearing healthy and active, dressing presentably, acting good-natured and sociable--are completely pointless and no effort whatsoever should be made in these areas.

*Talking to women is a totally different skill than just talking to people, which is how someone can have an education and a job and not be a hermit and yet truthfully say he can't talk to women.

*The only hope for a beta male is an intensive course of schooling that will enable him to mimic the stereotyped behavior patterns of the alpha. These behaviors are so diverse and bizarre they merit their own post, or series of posts, or series of posts that I promise to do and then forget about because there was a shiny thing.

Fun fact: wolves in nature do not have "alpha/beta/omega" social systems! This only occurs when unrelated individuals are confined together in a way that never happens in the real world. Wolf packs are actually more like nuclear family units, in which the younger males don't mate because the females are their mother and sisters, not because they're "betas." When the males get older they'll go off on their own and a lot of them will find females and mate.

And presumably the ones who don't spend a lot of time hanging out and telling each other that it's not their fault, it's just those damn bitches.


  1. I'm certainly no alpha and I haven't noticed a dearth of sex since I dropped the alpha/beta bullshit.

    But now I want chocolate-covered bacon.

  2. ...must you bait Eurosabra?

    Seriously, though, I agree with all of this. I've known plenty of shy, nerdy, not-conventionally-attractive guys who have very little trouble getting laid. Hell, I've slept with plenty of guys like that.

    Skeevy douchebags, on the other hand, do seem to have marked difficulty in the sex department.

  3. I really don't get that. I've been that guy who goes for months/years without any kind of non-platonic attention from women, much less sex, but that whole greek-letter power-centric belief system is utterly alien to me. Who's happy living like that, much less aspires to it?

    (My own belief system boiled down to "I'm just not attractive and nothing short of extensive plastic surgery is gonna change that," which might have really meant "I'm terrible at judging subtle expressions of interest," or might not.)

  4. (My own belief system boiled down to "I'm just not attractive and nothing short of extensive plastic surgery is gonna change that," which might have really meant "I'm terrible at judging subtle expressions of interest," or might not.)

    Judging from your profile photo, I think the latter is more likely than the former, but as a straight male, my judgment isn't terribly important.

    My personal situation boils down to; as someone in both a male dominated career and mostly male dominated hobbies, I don't often meet single women. When I do, my success rate is actually pretty good.

    In my college years, I would've agreed with some of the list, but then I had a long term relationship, grew up, gained some confidence, and got out of the 3-4:1 M:F ratio engineering school environment.

  5. jfp - I'm with zeeke, you look fine to me. And I'm a straight female (although not, by beta male standards, a "woman"), so there.

    zeeke - Yeah, I think some guys who feel like they're being ignored by women are actually doing a fabulous job of ignoring women, and a woman would have to practically hunt them down if she wanted to date them.

  6. This post gives me the overwhelming urge to high-five you.

    "Talking to women is a totally different skill than just talking to people" Sometimes I think fixing this- I mean, making them REALLY internalize what's wrong with it and get over it- would solve all the Nice Guy woes. I mean, this one makes me feel sorry for them. (Then they usually spout "I love women!" and I get over feeling sorry. Grrr.)

    Eurosabra in 3... 2...

  7. Dragojustine - The funny thing is, a lot of those guys do talk to women just fine, it's not exactly sexism, but when it comes to attractive women in dating/pickup settings they go completely neurotic.

    Hell, lots of "beta males" have had no trouble talking to me, because they weren't macking on me, so we could just talk about the subjects at hand and it was relatively chill. But for some reason the idea that you talk almost the same way to a woman you are macking on--no! It can't possibly be that simple! There must be some trick to it!

  8. Hey, at least you didn't include rape apologia as part of the belief system. I have a late-day run to the university medical center, so am not going to argue point-counterpoint at the moment. Oh, and the slogan is "Women Are Aliens Who Give Me a Stiffy."(tm).

  9. You know, your name has basically become a shorthand for That Guy in these discussions, but sometimes you're alright, yourself. Sometimes.

    ...Do you have any crazier friends you could send over?

  10. I think I figured out why women aren't interested in me. It's the hair. Even though I barely take care of it at all, it's thick and silky and smells nice, with an oh-so-cute wavy pattern. They probably think that anyone who puts in enough effort to make it come out like that is gay. Plus some of them are jealous. Yes, that must be it.

    Okay, I'm half joking. But I have noticed a few women say they wished their hair was like mine, and bi guys seem to enjoy playing with it, so...

  11. Not Me: if you're half-joking, the implication is that you're half-serious! I'm a straight woman, (so I have all the necessary qualifications to judge this event), and I can assure you that I have never avoided hitting on a guy because I decided that he was too attractive and therefore gay and therefore not worth hitting on.

    I mean, the logical implication is that guys should make themselves ugly in order to attract women, and that's obviously not true. (Not only should guys not make any effort to enhance their appearance, they should actually downplay their natural good looks! Because looking good is a secret code that repels women.)

    I would guess that bi guys enjoy playing with your attractive hair because, like straight women, they're attracted to attractive men (and their hair).

    On a note unrelated to your comment, I find it curious that men who are attracted to men often make more of an effort with their appearance than men who are attracted to women. It seems to suggest that men are worth making oneself attractive for, but women aren't. Or something.

  12. @Not Me: bi girl here to say that when I personally see a cute guy with, say, a pink ribbon in his hair, it doesn't stop me from having hope that he might be bi. I don't make any assumptions about the excessively well-groomed unless they're wearing slacks and a nice shirt, in which case I tend to assume they're not Our Kind Of People.

  13. The "serious" half of the half-joking part is that it's probably not just the hair, but somehow my over-all appearance and/or mannerisms seem to set off people's gaydars like crazy. I don't even need to try to find men, they come to me. They're usually bi rather than gay, probably due to my rather feminine figure (my hip-to-waist ratio is such that I have to wear women's pants - men's pants just do not fit right). I'm heteroflexible, so a fling with a guy now and then is fine, but I prefer women.

    With women, it's not like they're repelled or I'm invisible or anything, it just takes considerable effort to get and keep their attention and then it never goes anywhere. Apparently at least two of them really did think I was gay. (One of them once said "It's the 90s. You don't need to hide in the closet anymore.") While only knowing this about two of them is inconclusive, I can't help but think that this is probably an issue somehow.

  14. @Second anonymous, who apparently posted while I was writing: Okay, if that's common, then I'm even more confused now.

  15. Just because I know someone else would point it out, or I know that I would- primatologists used to focus on the biggest and flashiest apes and monkeys that sit on the top of the male social latter and assume they were the only ones that did the mating. They're not. They're able to control access to the in-estrus females enough through pure assholeness that they get more matings, but there are a lot of ways for a male primate to get laid- or even to sit at the top of that status latter.

    Bookworm- female, attracted to men, if that's you and recent your looks aren't the problem. There may be some reason you don't come off as attractive even so since that's a lot more than just face, but you're far from ugly. I have no particular interest in buffing your ego or making you feel better, just my opinion.

    Being lectured about how women have access to all the sex they want and spend all their time rejecting everybody but Mr. Stereotype Stud is usually pretty aggravating to any woman who is not herself on the top of the attractiveness totem pole of her own gender.

  16. Labrat - Being lectured about how women have access to all the sex they want and spend all their time rejecting everybody but Mr. Stereotype Stud is usually pretty aggravating to any woman who is not herself on the top of the attractiveness totem pole of her own gender.

    This has to do with the definition of "woman." Women are gorgeous and it's no surprise that they have their pick! (I don't even know how often this is true, but I can understand why it sounds reasonable.) Any woman, whether she looks like Megan Fox or Angelina Jolie or even a little "different", like Alyson Hannigan, will have suitors to choose from. (Some guys, at this point, will go as far as to say "even fat women!", here meaning Keely Shaye Smith.)

    There's just some strange lock in the concept of "woman" which precludes any understanding the problems that some invisible and inconceivable female might have.

  17. There's just some strange lock in the concept of "woman"
    I think the problem here starts with the concept of "till death do us apart". So many boys are brought up by women and women impose on them this notion of utmost masculine faithfulness. So, seeing a girlfriend in a woman subconciously means you will be supposed to stay with her forever. That puts some serious boundaries on prospective girlfriends.

  18. Me- Yeah, I figured this was all somehow women's fault. What isn't, right?

    Jesus, bitches. If they're not ruining your life by being in it they're ruining your life by not being in it. Just can't win with these cunts.

  19. They are just Moms, but if you insist...

  20. Oh, well, that changes everything. I thought you were talking about women.

  21. Just can't win with these cunts.
    The main problem is exactly that - these "beta males" of yours take too much notice on what a woman might want. You look at the structure as if they were inferior to some "alpha males" - but no, they are "beta" towards the imaginary "lady of their house and mother of their kids". That's why for them so many normal things seem so difficult. And that is why the easy way to overccome these difficulties will be downgrading women to bitches, because this is the only way the "beta" male of yours would not be afraid of them.

  22. Me - Okay, I sort of see what you're saying, but you still did a bang-up job blaming women for the whole situation.

    A) These guys often explicitly talk about "alpha males" and how easy those jerks have it, I didn't make that part up.

    B) These guys' problem isn't that they won't settle for less-desirable women, it's that they don't care at all about a woman (ugly or pretty) as a human being. Even with gorgeous women, they aspire only to "get" her, not to become a part of her life. They're thinking "that's the shiniest and fanciest woman, I am a savvy shopper so I want that one," not "I like who she is."

    C) They don't care "what women want," they care "what makes women give it up, regardless of what they want." If men catered to female desire they would be, like, desirable! When most of these schlubs don't even bother to smile.

  23. Do you really think that men would want their kids to be brought up as doormats? Nah. Moms are teaching their boys this "my precious lady" attitude, thinking that they are doing the future women a favor. And then these chikens come home to roost this way.

    Might be these alpha males are alpha towards women, they don't give a shit about what a woman might think, they do what they want and then ditch the women. That makes them "jerks" in the eyes of those betas only because it makes them "jerks" in the eyes of women. But yes, they do have it easy, anyone could, actually.

    They are not settling for women, they want women settle for them. It has nothing to do with desire, the same result can be achieved with limiting women's choices.

  24. Me - Yeah, well, they're big boys and eventually they're going to have to start acting like human beings who can make their own damn decisions.


    Might be these alpha males are alpha towards women, they don't give a shit about what a woman might think, they do what they want and then ditch the women.
    Yeah, there are guys like that, and they suck. But there's also a rather large population of guys who have dates and/or girlfriends and just act like ordinary guys. That population seems almost as invisible as non-"woman" females.

    It has nothing to do with desire, the same result can be achieved with limiting women's choices.
    The result of having a woman in your house, I guess. But the result where she actually likes you--and you actually like her, for that matter--is a little harder to coerce.

  25. eventually they're going to have to start acting like human beings who can make their own damn decisions
    Cant't stress enough this "their own". Be prepared that you might not like it when they do, though :(

    I'm not sure why you keep saying these strange things about women, but if you insist, whoo am I to argue.

    You were talking about "beta males", the ordinary guys likely are no "betas" nor "alphas", that's why they are not invisible but rather out of this discussion.

    Once again, Moms seldom teach their boys about eventually becoming someone's love of her life, they are teaching them to be reliable providers - even (especially) if there's no love left between the two. So love here is not a part of the structure.

  26. Wow, emotions run really high on this one, don't they?

    I've been both a guy who couldn't get sex and a highly sought after guy. I hadn't heard of alpha/beta distinctions or 'game'. I couldn't get sex when I was trying (before I decided to remain celibate until marriage), and I was highly sought after when I was separated but not divorced and was determined not to commit adultery. (Most of the single women I knew expressed interest).

    The facile explanation that I heard often (from women and men both) was women want what they can't have, but I didn't buy that. Thinking over it I realized that I was just much more fun when I wasn't trying. When I was trying for a relationship with sex, I was enormously self-conscious, afraid of making a mistake. I was nice, yes, pleasant background, but really boring. When I was avoiding relationships and sex, and I didn't care, I was having fun with friends and was fun to be around.

    I don't know a lot about 'game', but I'd guess that when it works, it mainly works by helping boring guys become more fun.

  27. Other:

    A> Yeaaah. This is true of a couple of people I know. Only, they're not interested in the kind of women the jerks are apparently attracting, so what does it matter?

    B> This is also largely true of the boys I hang out's the tiniest, most outgoing girls who all the boys want. The other girls who are a bit fat or a bit less like a rollercoaster of fun who don't get the interest. Not necessarily high standards, but very specific ones. And then there's the guys who hit on All Women Ever Constantly, they don't get laid either.

    C> Would continuing to hit on you even though you aren't showing interest count?

    Me- Totally agree. Women r people 2!!

  28. I used to be exactly what you just described. But I changed, in every aspect. Do you want to know what made me into a better man?


    For a large part of my life I lacked confidence. I bought into the idea that women picked and chose the men in their lives, I self-analysed every act, every mannerism I had, and I held as a core belief that I was a worthless human being.

    And then, quite unrelated to my status with women at the time, I changed.

    I know that I am a good person. I see all women of all kinds, not just the stereotype you outlined. Women are people too. I talk to everyone I know in the same manner, laid back and witty, regardless of gender. I defy every bullet point that you have listed.

    This, I believe, is the fundamental difference between an 'alpha' and a 'beta'. Confidence. Being a confident individual only requires that you fully respect yourself as a human being.

    Still, my first instinct when meeting women in a club setting or the like are your third and fourth points, but I know this to be untrue and ignore those feelings. I treat that fear as I treat my fear of spiders: as completely irrational.

    Being a 'beta male' isn't some ideology that men actively seek out. It's a result of a lack of confidence, self esteem, and self respect.

  29. Owen - I'm not saying that all men, or all men who don't get laid, think this way. But there is definitely a weird little subculture that does.

    I agree that confidence is important, although I think that being able to empathize and form friendships with women matters a lot too. If you're afraid of women when you're not afraid of people, you're drawing a pretty messed-up distinction there.

  30. True enough. But back then, I was scared of all people, men and women. I was just scared of women more. It was very unhealthy. :(

    All I'm giving is my own anecdotal evidence, just as you have yours. Somewhere in-between is a general truth of 'beta males'.

  31. Everyone always says that "confidence" is the best way for guys to get women. Perversely, I'd say confidence is important but so is humility. I find it most attractive when a guy knows he has awesome qualities but understands that women don't all want the same things. "You're not into me? That's cool. Someone will be. Just a matter of time."

    On second thought, that's what confidence is. I think the PUA movement confuses "confidence" with "bluster". You know, making guys think they have to be brash, arrogant "alpha" assholes to get chicks.

    And of course the real issue with figuring out strategies for getting women is that the concept of "getting" a woman is creepy and objectifying in and of itself.

    I may have had times where I wanted to get laid or wanted a boyfriend; I may have had times where I was jealous because some other girl seemed to attract all kinds of male attention and I did not; but I never once thought of any of this in terms of "getting" a guy. "She gets more guys than me" "what do I have to do to get a guy?" Bleh.

  32. IAW Anonymous. Real confidence can handle rejection.

    The guys who think they're being confident but take it very personally if a woman turns them down (or is just insufficiently impressed with their awesomeness) are the ones who have no self-esteem and generally have a lot of trouble attracting women. Funny enough, this describes 95% of PUAs.

  33. Perhaps the real lesson here isn't even just "confidence", but "you won't get better at interacting with people if you just reduce them even further to objects and rule systems".

  34. Anecdotes and data, correlation and causation and all, but come to think of it all the sex I've had happened after I started treating women like people.

    these "beta males" of yours take too much notice on what a woman might want.
    No. That's exactly the opposite of the problem. They don't care what the object of their affections wants. They follow a script which, they are certain, presses all the right buttons to activate tha Pussy Machine.

    Guys who don't follow that script, of course, don't respect women, which makes them jerks, and it's totally unfair that they get laiid.

    Come to think of it, at least "beta males" have tossed aside the "script" idea, in favor of the notion that it's some intangible quality they lack that leads to sexual access to females.

  35. The only people offering to help lonely guys are the pickup artists, so of course they have an audience, and of course their myths persist. I don't follow them, but no other answers are forthcoming on why I'm terrible at attracting the women to whom I'm attracted.

  36. I think the "how to talk to women" thing can be less about "unable to treat women as people" and more "unable to integrate expressions of sexual interest into their usual mode of interaction."

    The trouble I had in my late teens/early twenties was more a combination of being generally shy, not being able to read sexual interest directed toward me (but I could see it when it was directed towards others), and thinking it was horrible to show my own sexual interest if I hadn't gotten some kind of signal that it was welcome.

    Me: I don't get why you blame women for society-wide messages. "Be a provider, not a lover" does not just come from "moms," it comes from all corners of society. (Sometimes it's phrased as "girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money," but it's the same concept.)

    Bruno: I think it's less that the PUAs are the only ones offering to help, but they're the ones promising the (unrealistic) results these guys want. Someone whose advice boils down to "it helps to be respectful, but there are no guarantees" isn't going to sell books or seminars.

  37. And I think that lumping in the "love-shy" who have different issues does them a disservice. The fact is that attraction is a sui generis interaction and PUAs are the only ones marketing recognition of some very common triggers for attraction. Bruno, unlike Bookworm, implies the issue which I've faced, which is that attraction ("hook point") rarely happens on its own without some kind of cultivation by either party. And conventional societal attractiveness causes people to cultivate their attaction to you and your attraction to them. And as far as supposed crazies go, you wouldn't like Arpagus (

  38. @jfpbookworm: I think the "how to talk to women" thing can be less about "unable to treat women as people" and more "unable to integrate expressions of sexual interest into their usual mode of interaction."

    This certainly is part of my issue, but my guess is that Holly would respond that it's merely an example of not treating women as people. People like sex, people want to be wanted, people welcome respectful and genuine expressions of sexual interest, etc.

  39. @Eurosabra - wow, Arpagus definitely sounds like one of those beta males - and to me, yes, a bit crazy. This bit reads a lot like someone who hates women because he hates himself so much...

    "While women are extremely valuable sex objects, male sexuality is worthless or (usually) worse, having a negative value; there is no intrinsic value in the male body, unfortunately. Most men are sexually invisible or disgusting to most women while most men find most women at least somewhat attractive. Sex is the transfer of value from a woman to a man; it is the woman giving something precious to the man in all cases. Female-on-male “rape” would thus be like a reverse robbery, analogous to someone forcing money into your pockets or breaking into your home to leave a pile of money. I used to compare it to the stealing of garbage, but the reverse robbery analogy is more apt, as the man is always getting something objectively valuable. A man getting sex from a woman is lucky, period, even if he was forced, and I categorically condemn anyone who thinks he is a victim of a woman’s sexual acts. Sympathy is the last thing such a man would get; the normal reaction is jealousy and then hate if he tries to pass himself off as a victim and get the woman prosecuted. I categorically refuse to see it any other way."

    Unless it's a parody - gee, I can't imagine why he can't get laid!


  40. Sweet Jesus. There's one that'll end in a murder-suicide at L.A. Fitness...

  41. We're lucky Sodini was self-destructively angry. As the proprietor of a ranch house with basement and with neighbors who were assiduously ignoring his weirdness, he could've totaled 20 dead women before anyone noticed.

    I agree with Arpagus that male sexuality is in continual oversupply, and that women are less interested in spontaneous casual sex than men.

    The post is a parody of Game tenets anyway and I don't see any real point. Despite Bruno, Bookworm, and myself pointing out that attracting women is apparently a different social skill from gaining friends and merely talking to people, Holly (because men are naturally attracted to her) continues to privilege some idea of "natural" attraction as inherently authentic.

    It is true that low-status men have jobs that may make very extreme demands on their time and energy, and therefore sex may be a higher priority than such things as entertainment, hobbies, and sports in their value systems, because it is a strong natural drive and the others are socially inculcated. I certainly have found that having female friends was no different than male friends, but people you are fucking are a different category. This may be distortion because most of my partners have also been women who found it hard to pair up with someone.

  42. It's also true that men are "privileged" in the sense that they almost never have to fear being raped or killed by someone they hooked up with for casual sex or were merely alone with at the wrong time. See also, the entire first part of your comment.

    "Natural attraction" is not a myth, but it IS true that women have to be way more selective in terms of who they actually hook up with- and self-hatred, misogyny, and desperation for sex outside any interest in the woman herself as a person ring the alarms in the hindbrain.

  43. "male sexuality is in continual oversupply, and that women are less interested in spontaneous casual sex than men"

    Agree with the first part, disagree with the second.

    When I used to have an online personal ad, I'd get around ten new people a day replying to it (usually guys who blatantly hadn't read my profile and just wanted to fuck). I took off all my photos and still got a reply or two, most days. The guys on that site constantly bitched that they never got any messages and why couldn't women be the initiators for once, but why should we initiate when all kinds of dick is coming to us?

    As for spontaneous casual sex, I'm all for that. But:

    1) I prefer ongoing sexual relationships rather than a bunch of one-offs; I have a bit of a learning curve, so sex with a new person is never going to be as good as it'll get a few times in. And I've had times where I told a guy that I was looking for casual, ongoing sex, and they said that sounded awesome, but after the first fuck they never called me again. Obviously they were either agreeing with everything I said because they saw me as a conquest, or they thought they liked the idea of regular sex but decided I was a gross slut because I "gave it up" too quickly.

    2) The very fact that so many guys see sex as a commodity they have to work for, rather than a fun thing to do with another human, kind of wrecks the whole experience for me. It's pretty painfully obvious when a dude sees me as pussy rather than as a person. Guess what? That's not a turn-on.

    3) The whole "what if I get raped or killed" thing.

    4) The act of P-in-V intercourse is damn near guaranteed to make most guys come. I don't come from penetration, and while some guys are lovely and attentive and care about getting me off, others don't. As I understand it, the majority of women need extra clitoral stimulation to reach orgasm, so obviously spontaneous sex with a near-stranger (who may or may not be a selfish prick) isn't going to appeal to us as much as it would to a guy who knows damn well he's gonna "finish".

  44. Despite Bruno, Bookworm, and myself pointing out that attracting women is apparently a different social skill from gaining friends and merely talking to people

    I'm a man. You're all wrong; maybe you'll believe it when I say it. If you can make friends with people, you can attract sexual partners. What you can't do, and this may be what's confusing you, is (necessarily) persuade an arbitrary person to have sex with you, if she's disinclined to from the first. Women can't do that either, for all you claim that women have all the sex and you want it so much you'll take it from anyone, I don't think you'd fuck an ugly woman however hard she flirted (though if you're happy having no standards, that's probably fine, even if I don't believe it).

  45. Damn it, can I take a third option here?

    Eurosabra, you're wrong because attracting women isn't a completely separate social skill, and certainly isn't about this "high status" versus "low status" categorization (which, curiously enough, always tends to only be definable after the fact).

    Hershele, you're wrong because being able to make friends doesn't automatically mean that some subset of people will find you attractive. Being a swell guy but an ugly one *does* tend to mean that while you'll make plenty of friends, those friends you make are not going to want to be sexual partners.

  46. Horny people aren't that shallow. Again, just because Suzy over there doesn't find you attractive doesn't mean no one does. I don't mean you should lower your standards, just that I don't think you have enough data to support the conclusion that no woman anywhere finds you attractive.

    That said, if indeed no one finds you attractive, learning secret tricks to get people in bed will be either useless or creepy or both.

  47. "Not getting laid" does describe how I - traight man - spend my time pretty well (Duh!), without me building an identity around it. I think I could came acrosss as one of those "beta males" without actually believing in any of the tenets outlined above.

    How so?
    Either I never meet women who find me attractive, or I'm bad at reading signals - this can give the impression that I actually don't believe into the posibility that someone could be into me.

    Poor communication skills also help ... to women who don't know me, it can seem as if I'm mostly jerky around them, not around most folks some of the time.

    Don't get me wrong, I think I've met a few folks who actually believe in most of those tenets, and I think the beta-male is a reasonable analytical category. My train of thought went more along the the line "and how does this apply to me?"

  48. I have been a beta male my whole life. Born and raised one. I have never had a girlfriend - I am close to 24. My life is a story of rejection, missed signals, and blown opportunities. The difference between an Alpha and a Beta is their ability to finish their chances.

    I have a lot of friends who are girls, close friends - most of them have long term boyfriends. I keep them in my life as friends even if they have rejected me or will never be with me because they are quality people - and you keep such people in your life.

    But the post is right - friendship with women is the most draw-out form of rejection. I don't know what I've done in my life to never deserve a woman, never know what its like to win a woman. That feeling of success and acceptance is something I cannot fathom.

    I just can't do it. The more I read to find out whats fundamentally wrong with - why I am cursed with such an affliction - the more disheartened I become by reading the truth and realizing who I really am. A failure and a loser. Real men get women. A man is defined by his success in all facets of his life - especially the quality of women he is able to win over. If you're not winning - you're losing, if you're not succeeding - you're failing. I have done just that. It's a pain that is so deep, so cemented, that I find it tough to look at myself in the mirror sometimes.

    It's better to know the truth then live in delusion but the regrets and the knowledge that you have missed out what life grants almost every human being is truly a tough pill to swallow. Sometimes you hope the pill chokes you on the way down.

  49. Most recent anon - You can't "win" or "deserve" a woman, we're not carnival prizes, you have to connect with one.

    (Please not, incidentally, that a girl who has a boyfriend is not rejecting you, she's accepting him.)

    And hell, you're only 24, that's just starting at life, you've got plenty of chances left if you don't self-define as hopeless.

    If you're a "real man," you are one with or without a woman, and if you're a schlub you're one even if you have a girlfriend, it really doesn't change that much. But don't get to saying "I was born a schlub and will die a schlub" at age 24, you can change yourself if you don't make it all about the women.

    Also maybe try counseling? Honestly you sound pretty depressed to me, not just "no girlfriend, no perspective" depressed, but "brain chemicals" depressed.

  50. Most recent anon,

    You are right about "friendship" with women. There is no such thing; they will only use you as an emotional tampon and as an object of perverse "girl power" domination.

    Don't talk to women about your problems - they will only lose respect for you. And for the love of god, don't listen to what women say about what they are attracted to.

    They will tell you they want "connection" but what they go for in the realm of reality is domination. They want to be "owned" in a more crude and primal way than you care to imagine. I have literally had to hide my disgust at what some girls have been like in bed.

    Possibly the only valid critique in this article:

    "The word "woman" refers exclusively to slender, outgoing, fashionable, conventionally beautiful heterosexual white women under 30 who aren't too slutty. Other types of woman aren't undesirable so much as nonexistent."

    Brushing aside the fact that you seem to thing beauty is "culturally constructed", that our penises care about "fashion" or how "outgoing" a girl is, I agree that, in the big picture, most women are just as screwed as men. I dont see alot of honesty among low-status men about this.

    A few differences though: a) 70% of women can get sex whenever they want, if they are willing to go for a one-nighter, and b) men dont actively despise the hordes of fat and ugly women.

    It's obvious that women feel nothing but contempt for the low-status men who make their comfortable, safe, orgy-of-consumption lifestyles possible.

  51. Most recent anon - I really hope, for your sake and society's sake, that you don't really think that way.

    You know what's wrong, right? I mean, even if you think you're right, you know where you and normal people differ, right?

    Well, uh... the normal people are right.

  52. We differ in the fact that I'm honest with myself. Do you have any arguments, or is the shaming language all you have? Don't worry, though, that's "normal", so good for you.

    Also, I have another reason why loser males have it worse than loser females: feminism. All women have to do is project all their misery onto men through this media, government and academic enforced civilization-destroying sour grapes religion.

    Further, women arent biologically wired to base their personal value on where they are in the social heirarchy. You are more communal, and this is something you will probably never understand about men.

  53. What *can* I say to someone who tells me upfront he won't listen to anything I say?

    If I'm talking to a brick wall--and you're very clear about that, Bricky--I might as well amuse myself, because there's really nothing else I can do.

  54. Brandon (former anon)May 16, 2010 at 2:43 PM

    I never said I won't listen to anything you say. Listening is important, but learning to recognize and interpret foreign, um, tongues is even more so. I was advising the guy about showing weakness to women.

  55. Okay, it's just hard for me to talk about women in this way while also being one. If you believe women are dishonest or manipulative or don't think the same way men do, then I worry you're going to project that onto everything I say.

    But the single thing I want to say to you is that I, at least, really like people. I really like men. I'm friends with men because I feel good about spending time with them, and at least outwardly it seems like they feel the same way. And I want to have romantic and sexual relationships with men for essentially the same reasons. I don't want to take, I want to share.

    I also have to point out, I don't necessarily even know a man's "status." I know how a guy looks and how I observe him acting. The looks he's kinda stuck with, I admit, but a guy's personality really matters a lot. And there's always some je ne sans quoi to it. But one thing I don't care about is what other people think of him--unless they have a good reason for it.

    As for feminism, I wonder if we're using different definitions. My definition of feminism is, essentially, advocating on both the personal and political level for equality between genders. I don't project misery onto men--but then again, I honestly don't have that much misery, my life isn't so bad.

    It's obvious that women feel nothing but contempt for the low-status men who make their comfortable, safe, orgy-of-consumption lifestyles possible.
    WHAT FUCKING ORGY. WHAT FUCKING ORGY SERIOUSLY. Sorry, don't mean to be "shaming," I'd hate to make you feel bad while you insult my entire gender, but I work my fucking ass off. I wipe up body fluids and fight with angry drunks and psychotic people for a fairly meager living, and I get to come home to some guy who thinks women live a "comfortable, safe, orgy-of-consumption lifestyle?" I do okay, like I said I'm not miserable, but I'm not having any consumption-orgies and I'm not getting anything from any men.

  56. Honestly, yours doesn't seem like the average female mind. Hardly a compliment worded that way, I know, but you seem pretty honest and intelligent, and work in one of the few fields where women do something of value.

    I don't want to insult one of the few decent outliers, you know?

    By "orgy of consumption" I mean the modern western lifestyle in general. This has been 95+% invented, created, maintained, etc. by the "beta males" while the alphas were busy in dominance displays and having sex with desirable women. The boring, affectionate, loyal types, who most women loathe from the core of their being (even if they marry them nowadays), are responsible for CIVILIZATION. If you live through the next few decades, which I hope like hell I dont, you will see what I mean. I'm 25, btw.

    You say your "not getting anything from men", yet you arent miserable. Well, here is a fundamental difference between the sexes. If a man gets nothing from women, you can be sure he is miserable, or gay or asexual.

    Feminism means a hell of alot more than "equality". Google "The Misandry Bubble".

  57. Fuck, I wrote a wonderful answer and it all got deleted by Blogger. Anyway, the gist was that I'm a human being, I brush my teeth in the morning and I love my father and my favorite food is fried tofu, and please don't hurt me or anyone like me. Because what you're writing, and what it's in the Misandry Bubble, it's the kind of thing that people who eventually come to hurt people say, and that's upsetting.

    Believing that you're persecuted is very, very dangerous. Bad things don't start by thinking "I hate those people," they start by thinking "those people hate me." Then you feel justified in doing some very scary things. (Incidentally, I do not believe that men hate me. Far from it. Most men that I know personally are just great!)

    Also you should read this as it sums up my feelings on the idea that relationships with women are an exclusive "alpha" privilege.

    (By the way, I am getting cock and companionship from men. But I'm giving them pussy and companionship so it's fair, it's a trade not a "get." No man is paying my rent, that's what I meant.)

  58. Oh, and as for me being "one of the good ones" (which, although seemingly the opposite of "you'll just lie", also makes you perhaps discredit my opinions)--I truly don't believe that. Of the women I know, they're no better or worse than men, no eviler or more manipulative or prone to global conspiracy. My female friends and family and coworkers are just as much tooth-brushing, tofu-eating, mostly-well-intentioned humans as I am.

    Maybe it'll help if I say this: I have no special information. I don't know anything, or feel anything, differently from a man. It's not like I just know how to manipulate or exploit men, I didn't go to a special school. Hell, it's taken some time for me to learn just how to date them. What feminists have said publicly, the things that you can read just as much as I can, are the only things I've heard from them. If there are secret motives, they're secrets from me too.

    Also I really like guys. Like really. Like sometimes I like a guy so much that I get a little scared of offending him and I get all shy around him. It's not a "that one seems like he could give me things," it's in my heart and my stomach and my panties. I really want to sleep with guys, to spend time with guys, and to make them happy. That little warm feeling you get when you see someone you love get something they really wanted? It's worth a million fucking billion free drinks.

  59. I thought "The Misandry Bubble" was pretty interesting, though I only skimmed it. It seemed to me that a major point of the author's was that women are currently acting as all people act when favored under law. My personal experience includes several of the author's complaints.

    I'm facing a second divorce, and I'm probably going to need a mortgage to keep the extreme fixer-upper house I bought outright because the value will likely be split again as in the first divorce.

    I didn't/don't want either divorce. The first was because my first wife was simply crazy, an unprofessional diagnosis being Borderline Personality Disorder. She disappeared leaving false accusations of physical abuse, and I heard a lot from my lawyer about how I'd better just accept whatever terms she offered through her lawyer. My second wife and I both have good reasons to be unhappy, due to sins of omission and miscommunication rather than commision. I still want to try working it out, this time with the help of a marriage counselor as I've suggested before, but she isn't willing. It seems unfair to me that I made most of the money, we spent jointly and pretty equally, and she can leave with half a house that I owned before we were married.

    She's a good person, and I do not expect that she will take me for what she can get, but the law offers a grossly inequitable distribution in her favor, and that skews what a person will ask for. It's not because women are reptilian aliens, but because women are only human.

  60. Mousie00 - Are you kidding? That thing's bugnuts insane! I'm sorry your divorces went poorly, but shit like "Many statements from her are 'tests' to see if the man can remain congruent in his 'alpha' personality, where the woman is actually hoping the man does not eagerly comply to her wishes." is fucking terrifying for me to read while being a woman.

    There's lots of shit in there about the horrible spectre of the False Rape Accuser too, that horrible bitch who just gets off on destroying men's lives. Again, sort of terrifying to be a woman, who is only able to speak with an untrustworthy woman voice, and read this sort of thing.

    And then anyone who disagrees must be sure not to use "shaming language," because shaming someone who's only saying slanderous and frightening things about you, that would be rude. Nothing you say can be right if you're rude.

    Yeah, there's kind of a lot more going on in Crazytown than divorce law.

  61. "Are you kidding? That thing's bugnuts insane!"

    Yes, but it's just some dude writing on the web. The web is full of crazy people.

    " fucking terrifying for me to read while being a woman."

    I kept it in perspective by remembering quite a few things I've read that would have probably been pretty creepy from the viewpoint of the penis-having half of the populace.

    Plus, you know, it was written with the zealousness of a guy who'd just leveled up in Chick Magnet! *ROFLMAO* Srsly, that PUA is some funny, funny stuff.

    Some people will be stuck at the D&D nerd's table in the High School cafeteria for life because they don't realize that they can just, you know, get up and walk away from it.

  62. Holly - Huh. Yeah, I missed the "statements from her are 'tests'" one.

    "the horrible spectre of the False Rape Accuser"
    My first wife accused her father of rape, her bosses of sexual assault, and me of beating and choking her. None of these were taken up with police, they were just spread around. The only one I'm 100% certain was false was the accusation at me, but I have good reason to believe all the others were also fabrications of BPD, created for sympathy. It's not too uncommon with BPD. Luckily for me, I had witnesses: I had invited a couple down on their luck to take the rooms in the attic, and they were able to point out that in 18 months of living there they never heard me raise my voice to her, much less seen any indication of physical abuse. This, and the fact I'm a very mild-tempered person, meant only a few friends thought I was a wife-beater. I remember running into one friend at the market, who had officially taken no position on the accusation. I couldn't talk to her, because I was processing every normal conversational sentence to try to figure out what a wife-beater wouldn't say.

    It's a nightmare for the victim of a real crime, who might not be believed in a real case, and a nightmare for a victim of a false accusation, who might not be believed. I'm sure the false accuser is not that common, but it's not some mythological spectre who "who just gets off on destroying men's lives"; there's stuff to be gained, such as sympathy in my first wife's case.

    I need to run without finishing this properly, but the basic idea is that with any situation where one type of person is favored, some people will abuse it; and the common legal situations today favor women. Some women will take advantage because they're people and people are imperfect, not because women are different.

  63. I think "shaming" is going the way of "ad hominem" in terms of the whole "you keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means" thing.

    I can see it being a useful concept when it means "don't make a case for feminism by appealing to patriarchal gender roles"--master's tools and so forth. But these days, it seems that any criticism that comes from a woman is "shaming" (and that criticism of men by other men isn't, even when it invokes those same gender roles).

  64. Holly,

    You are both missing and proving the point that the childish shaming bullshit is done in lieu of rational argument.

  65. Since I only skimmed "The Misandry Bubble" and didn't really read the parts I found boring, like the PUA bits, I don't want to look like I approve of the whole thing because I found it "interesting". Here's the claims I found interesting and plausible:

    * False accusations, or the threat of them, by women against men, can be used to blackmail men much more easily than the other way around.

    * Women have a tendency toward serial monogamy, referred to by the author as "hypergamy", leaving one monogamous mate and finding another.

    * "Equitable distribution" proceedings in divorce financially favor women who keep marrying and divorcing much more than men who do the same thing.

    * Many women take advantage of one or more of the above inequities, for example initiating divorce more than men. My take is that it's simply because it's human to take advantage, not because women are bad.

    * Studies indicating that women receive significantly less pay for equal work are implausible, as companies who hired all-female staff would be able to cut payroll significantly, but they don't. If women make 25% less for the same work, and a company has a 50-50 staff, they could cut payroll by an enormous 12% just by hiring all women; in most competitive, low-margin businesses this would easily allow them to dominate the field. Other businesses would have to follow suit, and they would quickly be competing for female employees, driving the pay rates up, until they were equal to men's rates.

    I have personal experience matching all of those points. Those were my takeaways from skimming "The Misandry Bubble", and the only parts I found interesting.

  66. Anon - No, you don't get to frame the terms of the debate as "I say anything I want, and if you get angry you lose."

    Mousie00 - False accusations, or the threat of them, by women against men, can be used to blackmail men much more easily than the other way around.
    Actual violence, or the threat of it, get used against women pretty often.

    Women have a tendency toward serial monogamy, referred to by the author as "hypergamy", leaving one monogamous mate and finding another.
    And men don't?

    * "Equitable distribution" proceedings in divorce financially favor women who keep marrying and divorcing much more than men who do the same thing.
    Oh come on. Unless you're some predatory vixen specializing in the mega-rich, marrying and divorcing for the alimony is about as fun and easy as cutting off your leg for the free hospital food.

    Studies indicating that women receive significantly less pay for equal work are implausible, as companies who hired all-female staff would be able to cut payroll significantly, but they don't.
    In general, women make the same as men for the same work. It's just that women don't get the chance to do the same work. So yeah, a female housekeeper makes the same as a male one, and a female salesperson makes the same as a male one, but which job are women more likely to get hired for?

  67. "And men don't?" [referring to 'hypergamy']
    I think if men in general had their way they'd more typically start new relationships without ending the old ones, polygyny.

    "Actual violence, or the threat of it, get used against women pretty often."
    Tragically true. Though I think it's underreported when it's the other way around, I still think male against female violence and threats are more common. It's horrible if women making rape accusations are attacked by the defense as "sluts". On the other hand, I'd much rather get a good, solid punch to the face than an accusation to my friends that I punched my wife, and yeah, I've had both. No easy answers to this, and pretending that false accusers are mythical isn't a decent way out.

    "Oh come on. Unless you're some predatory vixen specializing in the mega-rich, marrying and divorcing for the alimony is about as fun and easy as cutting off your leg for the free hospital food."
    Not how it usually works. I'm not saying a woman would marry me so she could split the value of my house, I'm saying that when I get married, I have to think that I might lose half the house, and when she's thinking of divorce and I'm thinking counseling, the prospect of turning half the shared house into lots of her own unshared cash doesn't help the counseling side.

    Again, my point isn't that women are bad, it's that perverse incentives are bad.

    Speaking of perverse incentives, one point I didn't mention that I agree with the "Misandry Bubble" author is that this system creates incentives for men to go with PUA ("Venusian Arts") as opposed to marriage. I didn't think to mention it because I disagree with the author on moral grounds, I think PUA is immoral. I'm one of those "sadistic religious conservatives" he talks about.

    P.S. "Venusian Arts"? The third Doctor Who, played by Jon Pertwee, was trained in "Venusian Karate", which meant chopping people on the neck, and that's what "Venusian Arts" makes me think of.

  68. @ Mousieoo

    It seems unfair to me that I made most of the money, we spent jointly and pretty equally, and she can leave with half a house that I owned before we were married.

    Separation of property laws recognize that one may contribute to a relationship financially, or with domestic labour, or childcare. They recognize that these roles are usually divided between the two partners. One will tend to earn more if one's partner is a homemaker. I can't remember where I read about this, but it was recently calculated that is homemakers were paid for their labour, they would make over $100, 000 a year. Not all jurisdictions include the matrimonial home in the property to be divided, but the idea is that even if the property was not acquired during the relationship, the other partner contributed to it's value by maintaing it.

    I have not yet worked with any women divorcing without kids, but the women I worked with had a realistic understanding of the financial limits of their husbands. They were not out for all they could get. None had even considered applying for spousal support; their main concern was obtaining child support. I'd like to add, not because you mentioned it, but because it is frequently brought up in discussions about divorce, that with the exception of those whose husbands had engaged in criminal behaviour, all the women I have worked with wanted their husbands to spend more time with their children.

  69. As for "shaming"--well, when targeted at the forces of oppression, shame is actually fucking awesome, because it's the only thing that fucking works. We tried logic and reason and that didn't get us anywhere. We'll try shame.

    And I'm so glad I got up 90 minutes early so I'd have time to Fisk the Misandry Bubble before work:

    "Women are hypergamous" = sluts

    Women delaying marriage due to career opportunity + processed foods = "fatocalypse" (author's word)

    Men died, widows were visible = you are all ungrateful, fat sluts

    Pro-female social engineering = apoplexy indicative of entitlement poisoning

    Two months salary guideline = feminist conspiracy to trap men financially

    sadistic social conservative = some other dude even though I've so far spent 3,000 words so far pining for the days of "manly men" and decrying the way feminism deprives beta males (like me) my God-given right for access to women

    "Wile E. Coyote moment" = ungrateful, fat, old sluts!

    "A key that can open many locks is a valuable key, but a lock that can be opened by many keys is a useless lock." = don't you silly feminists know that experienced men are awesome, but experienced women are sluts?

    Men fear cuckoldry more than rape = stop whining about rape!

    Venusian Arts = I can use my internet learnings to trick you feminists into letting me bed you!

    White Knight = you are a dupe if you undermine my agenda

    population displacement = brown people outbreeding us! Wait I am Indian! Am I suffering from mejor de raza? Yes, I think I am!!

    VR women will create impossibly high sexual standards for real women = a good thing!

    globalisation = I'll move to a place where men are appreciated! Like the Muslim world!

    The Four Horsemen = Feminism is going to screw all you feminists in the ass, and I'm-a laugh!

    How dare you treat Sarah Palin like that = forget what I said about sadistic social conservatives

    Conclusion = Fuck you all anyway, I'm going back to India where men are still appreciated.

  70. @ Marissa, Good points in general. Im my particular case, there were never any kids, I chose a career that's not fun because of it's earning potential, and both wives chose fields or careers they loved despite earning potential. Neither was a dedicated homemaker. Both did more housework than I did, though.

  71. @ Mousieoo

    Both did more housework than I did, though.

    There you go, then. Therein lies their entitlement to property acquired during the marriage and the matrimonial home.

  72. I was a loser and just went and bought me some, and found I didn't even like it.

    Makes me wonder why they don't just go buy it like I did, and I'm a total loser, freak, an idiot.

    They just don't really want it.
    women like aggression.
    These weak men out here make dating easier,
    the feminizing makes club hoping practically no effort.

    I even let them tell me to shut up, and hit me.

  73. Master says: The story went from desparate men to the property ladder...

    I didnt read all the comments but read a bunch to know whats going on here.
    ok a large percentage of the male population are beta, and if they lack all the skills to chat up girls or keep getting gunned down for being too nice or whatever, will probably force them to focus on prostitutes which overtime decreases the value of women infront of betas eyes (just like males who get too much sex, like the alpha) because they get to the ultimate pleasure quickly for a little price. so here we are, a pussy is only a phone call

    women want players who don't cheat...well ladies its your can have the lapha male (a pussy magnet) who could be shagging your best friends or worst case your sister...or have a boring and unexperienced beta male who doesn't know how to cheat (we will assume prostitutes don't exist in this case) :P....i would classify men into 4 categories but in this case we will just say there are two (alpha and beta)

    in the end, there are alpha and beta of both men and women..some women are really easy to get as well...Nyways im done for now. but ladies keep your eyes on your man when your pregnant...lool..ciao

  74. Oh God, you dumbfuck, I didn't mean this shit is true.

  75. Try talking nicely you fat hoe.

  76. I like how the insult is that I have too much sex. That's the wonderful thing about being a woman--sometimes people will insult you with "you get laid a lot!"

    Hell yeah, buddy.

  77. Master says:

    A man can fuck enough pets like you & only get labelled a player, but if women make any attempts like your royalty, is labelled a hoe-lly....bunny!

  78. I totally disagree with the statement that being friends with a woman is a long-drawn form of rejection.

    Men and women are fundamentally magnificent creatures in their own right and there is nothing wrong with recognising that. When I want to go to the pub and watch rugby, I go out with a guy. When I feel sad about losing my job or I need to open up to someone, I talk to my female friends. Women are fundamentally better listeners and they are better at matters of the heart. Men are gung-ho and would be fantastic to do stuff with like bungee-jumping, mountain biking and getting drunk.

    Just be honest with yourself. If you're friends with a woman who has already turned you down because you're hoping for a chance in the future, then you're wasting your time. If you're friends with her because she is genuinely great to talk to, then by all means do so.

  79. LOL!

    I guess I'm a beta female then....

  80. "Some men are alpha males, and everyone likes them and they can get lots of women while acting like total assholes and it's no fair. These men are chosen by random lottery at birth and did nothing to deserve their status."

    Yeah! Ain't those betas chumps to think like this? Except:

    "a man's attempts to be traditionally "attractive"--being well-groomed, smelling good, appearing healthy and active, dressing presentably, acting good-natured and sociable--are completely pointless and no effort whatsoever should be made in these areas."

    "Well groomed, smelling good, … dressing presentably": this is code for dressed *expensively*.
    "appearing healthy and active": this is code for having the alpha body type.
    "acting good-natured and sociable": ie, socially dominant.

    "I'm not picky: all I want in a man is that he be rich, handsome, built, and confident/dominant".

    All those betas are fools to think that women insist on alphas!

    PS: I'm a gamma, not a beta.

    1. Smelling nice is so expensive.

      And clearly, I only want guys who smell nice because that means they're rich. Not because I have a nose.

      Just like I want guys who are sociable because it means they're dominant and pee on the most trees, instead of because I want to socialize with them.

      Why don't you start with the assumption that women make decisions for ordinary human reasons, and work forwards from there?

  81. Where have all the good men gone?

    They're hiding.

    1. Oh god, where's my boyfriend?

      Where's my roommate?

      ...WHERE'S MY DAD?


  82. @ Holly. One word for you. Projection.

    1. Right, because I hate men because I can't get laid and blame men for it. That describes my life to a T.

  83. You go gurlll...Ride that cock carousel now. The dark side of 30 looms. Then things change for the better. But not if you are a woman.


    Hope you like cats!

    1. "Carousel"? I have a boyfriend.

      But oh noes, at thirty I'll really regret choosing who I have sex with! If only I'd had sex with anyone who wanted me before thirty, I'd... I'd...

      ...Um, exactly what's in this for me again?

  84. You see, the problem with alphas is they can always find someone younger and hotter than you. Once you hit 30, you are nearing your due by date.

    Lets just say that the betas will start looking real good once the alpha dick you loved so much i sno longer interested in you because they can snag 20 somethings.

    tick tock tick tock tick tock.......Time is on our side. Yours? Not so much.

    1. How rarely do you go outdoors, that you think "woman who has sex" means "woman who has sex with a wide variety of muscular yet insensitive hockey players and millionaire playboys?"

      I have sex with pretty much just one dude and he's a shy, sweet chubby nerd.

      There's no such thing as "alphas" and "betas" of course, but if there were, the idea that young women only date one certain type of man betrays an astounding failure to notice the real, ordinary couples that are all around you.

  85. Of course there are alphas and betas. Its the reason why in a perfectly hypergamous situation like university 20 percent of the guys get 80% of the pussy. Its the reason why historically speaking, only 40% of men passed on thier genes, as compared to 80% of women. Its the reason why assholes, douchebags and thugs get laid alot more than quiet bookworms.

    1. How did you get to be old enough to use a computer without hearing about this thing called a "couple"? They're very common, you should look into it.

      Thinking of the world as a continuous frat-party hookup-a-thon is only one of your problems, but it's the most obvious.

  86. thanks for the post, man. i think i really needed it. i am pretty much the kinda guy you address here with your little satire.

    and it's so true, you get so traumatized about not getting laid that you get obsessed enough to practically make it into your identity. this disservice i have been doing myself for years. it's a terrible way to live.

    i'm only just beginning to look for ways to move on from that. your little rant has helped me think clearer, so again, thanks!

  87. To the author:

    I take it that you hold views opposite to every extreme you've listed, but as a guy I find it hard to subscribe to the notion that getting to have sex with women is as easy as being sane and presentable.

    Living in a big city, I find that in addition to "designing the product" - something that both men and women have to do - guys are also seen as responsible for selling it. And how many guys do you think are comfortable - or even good - at being salesmen? I'd take a gander and guess that the ratio of guys being comfortable with approaching and getting a woman interested is about the same as guys being comfortable working professionally in sales, which is to say not many.

    I'd also like to point out that learning how to talk to women *is* a skill that requires a lot of training, because women tend to have expectations on how they'd like to be communicated with and in terms of how they'd like to be romantically and erotically stimulated. I find that these expectations are more often than not not in line with a guy's natural personality, which means that just about every guy that doesn't automatically conform to the male gender ideal (as demanded by women) will be filtered out from sleeping with women, until the day they "get lucky" from bumping into a drunk woman in a club or meeting someone who is desperate for sex.

    It's true that "there's a girl for every guy" and that merely going out of your way to meet people should be enough for a guy to get laid, but women are - in my experience - notoriously discreet about letting on that they're interested in someone, to the point where they won't even try to put a little extra effort into conversations with the guy they're interested in. This is something I have experienced time and time again, both in clubs and social circles.

    I think that this creates a dilemma for guys that can be extremely wrecking and subsequently cause them to adopt misogynist views, because on one hand they're expected to do all the approaching (which can cause a lot of emotional pain in itself) but on the other there's absolutely no way to know which women are interested, until the day when a woman suddenly falls into their lap from out of nowhere.

    Guys are constantly reminded that they're a member of the "unattractive sex" which is only enforced by normative gender ideals and never receiving any explicit appreciation from women (because how often will a girl tell a guy he's beautiful as opposed to expressing how *he* makes *her* feel?), so feeling that you have no control over whether you can meet girls and that it's all some kind of arbitrary process is an awful feeling for a guy to have.

    Please try to understand this, because while women's issues are important, the emotional damage a guy has to endure can also be a big problem, and I wish people would sometimes sympathize with this at least every now and then.

    1. women tend to have expectations on how they'd like to be communicated with and in terms of how they'd like to be romantically and erotically stimulated.

      Oh, right. I forgot that men don't have any preferences about anything ever, whereas women are an alien hivemind.