Sex. Feminism. BDSM. And some very, very naughty words.
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
The Nice Guy's Guide to Realizing You're Not That Nice.
I have people to do and things to be (and I slept really late... like 5 PM late), so all I have is a link, but it's Lore Sjoberg, so it's plenty awesome.
On Nice Guys. You might not want to read the comments.
I had a friend in college who was always whining that "girls don't like nice guys. Why can't a girl fall for a nice guy like me?" So finally one day I told him "you're confusing niceness with meekness- you have no self-confidence, and you're kind of a dick." Nice guys don't wear shirts that say "NO FAT CHICKS." We're not friends anymore.
I want to post two responses I got from facebooking this article. If anyone could offer their thoughts, I woud really appreciate it. ********* Man A: With a slight pun intended i would like to point out theres a nicer way to put it and thats simply to be more confident in what you do. Im not talking about female empowerment, god knows theres enough of that every single day, but simply someone asking someone else to say what they mean in plain language. Dont forget the people this article is ... See morepointed at are those without a social life, those people who dont go to bars and meet people. So they arent used to the double talk, the subtlety (dont pretend you havent done it before, everyone has) that occurs in male female interactions. This article excludes a massive amount of information on this front, it is a pissing competition where someone has recently clawed themselves out of a long dark pit of either loneliness or lack of self confidence and is simply waving his electronic cock in the faces of people who simply have no idea how to process it. This man should be ashamed of himself. ********** MAN B: 'X' what the fuck is all this? Is the world suddenly a gameshow where the top prize is Please A Woman? All this 'a woman is entitled to reject who she wants' business is either a) a female declaration of passivity, b) the assumption of negativity in all gender relationships, or c) both.
I love this 'talking to women is easy, stop complicating it... See more' stuff coming from girls because almost every girl I know could do with treating MEN as more of a puzzle (i.e. actually making an effort to figure it out) instead of assuming the world will come to them and wondering why it doesn't.
Anon - For Man B, I have to tell him that no, the world is not a "Please A Woman" gameshow, but pleasing women is, yeah. It's all very well to not give a fuck what women think, but you can't expect women to then think the world of you anyway.
Cheers, Holly. In between A and B I gave my own perspective and it just made things all the more fiery. I said talking to women is like talking to people, that life is tricky and unfair and that the universe doesn't owe us hottie action.
Boy, did that go down well.
B has a keen frustration with women not acknowledging his complex masculinity. For what it's worth, I think going into any interaction with 'Go on, bitch, prove me wrong then' is a tad counter productive.
And now I feel very silly for posting the article for a bit of fun and giggles as it's al blown out of proportion. Will no doubt look like a humourless, feminist harpy too.
PS: thank you Holly for the latest blogging. The piece you wrote on the ER is wonderful.
It's very difficult for most people to be confident if they haven't been successful, and very difficult to be successful if they're not confident.
I feel like within the context of the article, "confidence" isn't referring to being confident you can pick up chicks (an attitude that always comes across as douchey to me) but confidence that you're a good and worthy person whether or not chicks want to fuck you (which is like freaking catnip to the people you flirt with because they know your entire ego and sense of well-being aren't riding on your reactions...it takes the pressure off).
True confidence means knowing you're awesome without needing constant positive feedback. Therefore, all these misguided "nice guys" need to shift their focus from getting girls to developing themselves as people...and the girl thing will eventually take care of itself.
All this 'a woman is entitled to reject who she wants' business is either a) a female declaration of passivity, b) the assumption of negativity in all gender relationships, or c) both.
Wait. Did that person just say that women shouldn't be allowed to reject guys they're not interested in? Seriously?
Thank you, PerverseCowgirl. I kind of wish I had never posted it because it's made me feel more than a bit lonely to have men in my life screeching at me.
PS I've ony just figured how to sign off with a name. Doh.
Quick update, guys. My responses to A and B came up with some fascinating results. B took back many a statement and A is asking me out for a date (don't worry I'm not that foolish)
Right. Who is else is wrong on the internet.......
confidence that you're a good and worthy person whether or not chicks want to fuck you (which is like freaking catnip to the people you flirt with because they know your entire ego and sense of well-being aren't riding on your reactions...it takes the pressure off).
It does indeed take some of the pressure off, but I still fucking loathe the parenthetical part of this sentiment.
Knowing I'm awesome is great, and has gotten me through a lot of times of feeling unattractive. But liking myself, while a necessary condition, is by no means sufficient - just because I can see what I like about myself doesn't mean that others will agree, and it certainly doesn't mean that they'll want to interact on a sexual or romantic level with me, and liking myself only goes so far in replacing the need for that kind of interaction.
True, in my case "the girl thing" *did* "eventually take care of itself" - because I lucked out and pretty much got what I was looking for through no conscious effort of my own. But that was after a lot of years of loneliness, and it's certainly not something I think anyone should be encouraged to expect.
Yo, Jf, your experience sounds pretty much like life. Which is unfair. You roll with the punches and do your best. I'm guessing that your getting a girlfriend required more pro-activeness then simply waiting for her to fall into your lap.
'Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time' -Zadie Smith
You might not want to read the comments.
ReplyDeleteMeh?
I did read the comments, and a few people pointed out something that is probably very significant if it's true:
ReplyDeleteIt's very difficult for most people to be confident if they haven't been successful, and very difficult to be successful if they're not confident.
I had a friend in college who was always whining that "girls don't like nice guys. Why can't a girl fall for a nice guy like me?" So finally one day I told him "you're confusing niceness with meekness- you have no self-confidence, and you're kind of a dick." Nice guys don't wear shirts that say "NO FAT CHICKS."
ReplyDeleteWe're not friends anymore.
"guys that in college struck me as the sort that would have trouble sweet-talking a hand towel and a bottle of lotion into bed..." LOL.
ReplyDeleteYeah, there is a very distinct difference between a "Nice Guy" and a guy who happens to be nice. I am a huge fan of the latter.
I'm considering printing this article on leaflets and dropping a planeload of them on the campus of the engineering school I went to.
ReplyDeleteI want to post two responses I got from facebooking this article. If anyone could offer their thoughts, I woud really appreciate it.
ReplyDelete*********
Man A: With a slight pun intended i would like to point out theres a nicer way to put it and thats simply to be more confident in what you do. Im not talking about female empowerment, god knows theres enough of that every single day, but simply someone asking someone else to say what they mean in plain language. Dont forget the people this article is ... See morepointed at are those without a social life, those people who dont go to bars and meet people. So they arent used to the double talk, the subtlety (dont pretend you havent done it before, everyone has) that occurs in male female interactions. This article excludes a massive amount of information on this front, it is a pissing competition where someone has recently clawed themselves out of a long dark pit of either loneliness or lack of self confidence and is simply waving his electronic cock in the faces of people who simply have no idea how to process it. This man should be ashamed of himself.
**********
MAN B: 'X' what the fuck is all this? Is the world suddenly a gameshow where the top prize is Please A Woman? All this 'a woman is entitled to reject who she wants' business is either a) a female declaration of passivity, b) the assumption of negativity in all gender relationships, or c) both.
I love this 'talking to women is easy, stop complicating it... See more' stuff coming from girls because almost every girl I know could do with treating MEN as more of a puzzle (i.e. actually making an effort to figure it out) instead of assuming the world will come to them and wondering why it doesn't.
So there.
**************
Thank you x
Anon - For Man B, I have to tell him that no, the world is not a "Please A Woman" gameshow, but pleasing women is, yeah. It's all very well to not give a fuck what women think, but you can't expect women to then think the world of you anyway.
ReplyDeleteCheers, Holly. In between A and B I gave my own perspective and it just made things all the more fiery. I said talking to women is like talking to people, that life is tricky and unfair and that the universe doesn't owe us hottie action.
ReplyDeleteBoy, did that go down well.
B has a keen frustration with women not acknowledging his complex masculinity. For what it's worth, I think going into any interaction with 'Go on, bitch, prove me wrong then' is a tad counter productive.
And now I feel very silly for posting the article for a bit of fun and giggles as it's al blown out of proportion. Will no doubt look like a humourless, feminist harpy too.
PS: thank you Holly for the latest blogging. The piece you wrote on the ER is wonderful.
It's very difficult for most people to be confident if they haven't been successful, and very difficult to be successful if they're not confident.
ReplyDeleteI feel like within the context of the article, "confidence" isn't referring to being confident you can pick up chicks (an attitude that always comes across as douchey to me) but confidence that you're a good and worthy person whether or not chicks want to fuck you (which is like freaking catnip to the people you flirt with because they know your entire ego and sense of well-being aren't riding on your reactions...it takes the pressure off).
True confidence means knowing you're awesome without needing constant positive feedback. Therefore, all these misguided "nice guys" need to shift their focus from getting girls to developing themselves as people...and the girl thing will eventually take care of itself.
-perversecowgirl
All this 'a woman is entitled to reject who she wants' business is either a) a female declaration of passivity, b) the assumption of negativity in all gender relationships, or c) both.
ReplyDeleteWait. Did that person just say that women shouldn't be allowed to reject guys they're not interested in? Seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
Thank you, PerverseCowgirl. I kind of wish I had never posted it because it's made me feel more than a bit lonely to have men in my life screeching at me.
ReplyDeletePS I've ony just figured how to sign off with a name. Doh.
And yes, Anon. He seriously wrote that.
ReplyDeleteBut then I should be trying to move in cooler circles I guess. The non-douche bag circle.
Quick update, guys. My responses to A and B came up with some fascinating results. B took back many a statement and A is asking me out for a date (don't worry I'm not that foolish)
ReplyDeleteRight. Who is else is wrong on the internet.......
confidence that you're a good and worthy person whether or not chicks want to fuck you (which is like freaking catnip to the people you flirt with because they know your entire ego and sense of well-being aren't riding on your reactions...it takes the pressure off).
ReplyDeleteIt does indeed take some of the pressure off, but I still fucking loathe the parenthetical part of this sentiment.
Knowing I'm awesome is great, and has gotten me through a lot of times of feeling unattractive. But liking myself, while a necessary condition, is by no means sufficient - just because I can see what I like about myself doesn't mean that others will agree, and it certainly doesn't mean that they'll want to interact on a sexual or romantic level with me, and liking myself only goes so far in replacing the need for that kind of interaction.
True, in my case "the girl thing" *did* "eventually take care of itself" - because I lucked out and pretty much got what I was looking for through no conscious effort of my own. But that was after a lot of years of loneliness, and it's certainly not something I think anyone should be encouraged to expect.
Yo, Jf, your experience sounds pretty much like life. Which is unfair. You roll with the punches and do your best. I'm guessing that your getting a girlfriend required more pro-activeness then simply waiting for her to fall into your lap.
ReplyDelete'Everybody deserves clean water. Not everybody deserves love all the time' -Zadie Smith
Oh I wrote Sarah instead of Sara. There goes my brilliant alias ¬_¬
ReplyDelete